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[Rich Nagel]

I didn't want to clutter up the "XMPlay MIDI plugin" thread anymore than it already is <grin>, so's I decided to create a new thread here.


(from the "XMPlay MIDI plugin" thread)

Do not underestimate the power of the S-YXG50.  It might not sound that good with plain General MIDI files, but it beats the crap out of everything else if you feed it some properly sequenced XG MIDI files. And with whopping 512 notes of polyphony, it can handle even the craziest / most complex MIDI arrangements ever created.

There were 3 or 4 versions of the S-YXG50 softsynth. The last version (for Windows XP) is the only one that sounds good (44kHz output, 512-note poly, improved sound set). The older ones (for Win98) were terrible - 22kHz output, only 64-voice polyphony and a really shitty sound set

I just downloaded and installed the last version of Yamaha's S-YXG50 (Yamaha S-YXG50 v4.23.14S WDM) along with the 4MB sound bank/waveset, and I gotta say that I'm quite impressed! Many of my own GM MIDI compositions, as well as others in my MIDI collection sound just "OK"... but playing any that were specifically sequenced for the XG are really impressive.


(rewind to 1996/1997 or so)

I was composing mostly on a Wave Blaster (1) and an AWE32 with the usual "8MBGM.SF2" soundfont that I had purchased on CD. Back then my current project was the score from Eternal DOOM, and since most folks still had only OPL FM synyh for their MIDI music playback, I had always wished that more folks had a decent wavetable daughterboard so's they could hear the music like *I* could hear it <grin>.

One of the members of Team Eternal/TeamTNT, Lisa Moore, was interested in upgrading her PC with a wavetable daughterboard, and the Wave Blaster's (1) were getting a bit hard to find. So, I suggested the Yamaha DB50XG... although I wasn't really familiar with it; I only knew that it had a 4MB ROM of onboard samples, so I figured it would be comparable to my Wave Blaster (1).

She bought the board and installed it, and played a few of my Eternal DOOM tunes on it for me over the phone... I wasn't impressed in the least bit, and quite a few times thought to myself "YUCK!" (although I wouldn't tell her that, as I had suggested that board in the first place <grin>. The stock GM setup when playing standard GM MIDIs was fairly "weak" to me.


(fast-forward to today)

Since the S-YXG50 (with the 4MB sound bank) is about the same/comparable to the DB50XG, I can now hear how the DB50XG would have sounded playing MIDIs designed for XG. Like the Wave Blaster (1), on the DB50XG you can create completely new instruments using the ROM samples, and they could be sent to Wave Blaster (1) via sysex... just like the DB50XG; with a utility for the DB50XG "XGedit 95", and a utility for the Wave Blaster (1) "WB Manipulator".

But, what I didn't realize at the time, was that the DB50XG (as well as the S-YXG50) has ALL SORTS of additional hardware effects processors; overdrive, distortion, feedback, etc..., which my Wave Blaster (1) did/does not.

The Wave Blaster (1) supports chorus, but that's about it... it doesn't even have a reverb processor: which was one of MY BIGGEST GRIPES about it. As, with the addition of reverb processor, one could reproduce the *EXACT* same sound of any of the E-mu Proteus MIDI modules (Proteus 1/2/3/FX)... which sound quite phenominal, espcially with the orchestral instruments (which is the content of quite a bit of my own compostiions).

Anyhow, I was fooling around with the S-YXG50 and playing the old Yamaha XG MIDI file "D_RP_02X.MID"... and all I can say is DDAAAHH-UUUMMMN!

I've had and liked that MIDI file for many years now, but had only previously played it on my Wave Blaster (1) and AWE-32 cards (with the "8MBGM.SF2" soundfont loaded); as well as currently with my SBLive (with my custom "Weeds General MIDI SoundFont v3.0" loaded). Now, mind you, it sounds REALLY NICE on those cards (and especially with my "Weeds General MIDI SoundFont v3.0" on my SBLive), but...

...the custom overdrive guitar sysex/instrument in that MIDI when played on the S-YXG50 (and I'm sure a real DB50XG as well) sounds, well, nothing short of PHENOMINAL! A far cry from simply playing the regular standard GM overdrive guitar sample/instrument on the S-YXG50 and DB50XG (which is what I heard over the telephone years ago from Lisa, mentioned above)

I was then "obligated" to play all of the MIDIs that I had previously downloaded years back from the long-since gone "Yamaha XG Free Song Data Library" with the S-YGX50... WOW!


Anyhow, in a nutshell:

I still am quite biased towards my SBLive and all of my soundfonts (as I can give most modern (as well as retro) hardware MIDI modules a run for their money <grin>; oh, and just rambling/reminiscing here... I remember years past really drooling over the Roland SC-88Pro when it first hit the market).

But... I had absolutely NO idea just how powerful that the DB50XG was (and still is), and how great it sounded! And, it's quite cool how well the S-YXG50 (with the 4MB ROM sound bank) can simulate the DB50XG


P.S. Heh, it appears that the files for the S-YXG50's 4MB sound bank are in actuality a ROM dump from the DB50XG


(Edit) P.P.S. Maybe you can tell me, what is the difference of the S-YXG50/S-YXG70/S-YXG100? I realize that only the S-YXG50 WDM version is supported for Windows XP (the others for W9x), but what's the deal with the other (higher numbered) versions?

e.g. Did the S-YXG100 include a larger ROM sound bank than the other two?

[Rich Nagel]

Folks, Been "Rockin' in the Backwoods" <grin>.

Here's one that I had originally written back in '96 or so, but had never finished. Decided to go ahead and finish it up (in Yamaha XG format), and record it to an MP3... all generated from the afore-mentioned Yamaha S-YXG50 softsynth BTW, 'twould sound the same on any XG compatable Yamaha hardware.

http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Weeds_Music/Black_and_White_Live.mp3

A live rock concert performance sort of thing, with a driving Classic Rock style that everyone is sure to like... Well... at least the screaming girls and the audience in the MP3 seem to like it <grin>!

Crank yer speakers up and rock-out. Oh, and cheer along with the crowd if ya want <grin>

[oddiophile]

Maybe you can tell me, what is the difference of the S-YXG50/S-YXG70/S-YXG100? I realize that only the S-YXG50 WDM version is supported for Windows XP (the others for W9x), but what's the deal with the other (higher numbered) versions?

S-YXG70 is nothing but two synths in one package: The regular S-YXG50 and S-YG20 (a General MIDI/XG-Lite softsynth with a 2MB ROM). It was bundled with some old PC games.

S-YXG100 Plus (also known as Sondius XG), on the other hand, is a totally different beast: it has a higher quality sound set than the S-YXG50, more instruments, effects and a greater polyphony. The only downside is that it's a VxD driver, so it won't work under Windows NT-based OSes (Win2000, XP, Vista, Win7,etc.).

* S-YG20 was a low-end synth with *some* XG features (XG Lite), lacks sysex
* S-YXG50 was the mid-range synth (Full XG with sysex)
* S-YXG100Plus was the best of the best (XG+, HQ sound and plugin [expansion board] support)

P.S. Could you post a zipped package of all those MIDI demos that were bundled with XGEdit (including that D_RP_02X.MID)?

[Rich Nagel]

Thanks for the plethora of info, oddiophile

S-YXG100 Plus (also known as Sondius XG), on the other hand, is a totally different beast: it has a higher quality sound set than the S-YXG50, more instruments

Just a-wondering... any idea how large the sound set file was (I'm assuming it was larger, and a different version than the "SXGWAVE4.TBL" 4MB file for the other versions)?

P.S. Can you post a zipped package of all those old MIDI demos that were bundled with XGEdit/95 (including that D_RP_02X.MID)?

There were no MIDI files that came with XGEdit (XG Editor 95). The D_RP_02X.MID MIDI came from the "Yamaha XG Free Song Data Library". The link used to be http://www.yamaha-xg.com/english/xg , but it's long-since gone.

Was the Yamaha XG Free Song Data Library the one you were thinking of? If so, I could upload a ZIP of it here. The ZIP will be about 4.7MB (as I have all of 'em).


P.S. Been a lot of discussion about the S-YXG50 (as well as the DB50XG daughterboard) here -> http://vogons.zetafleet.com/viewtopic.php?t=26352 . (Re: the 4MB sound set) I was thinking out-loud in that thread:

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Ya know, it seems that *MANY* of the Yamaha MIDI modules have that *exact* same 4MB sample ROM on them (the DB50GX and the S-YXG50 as well). Some that come to mind from what I've read on the Internet are the MU10/MU15/MU50/etc... not sure about the MU80 (or higher) though, and there may be others that I'm not aware of (since I'm fairly new to this Yamaha "thang").

(I thought that) I wanted an MU50, but I don't really need all of the cool buttons and LCD display (although it sure looks cool sitting on your desktop <grin>), as I can do most anything with XG Edit (I think). And, the lower version models are considerably cheaper (if someone can actually _find_ one).

Anyhow, if what I've said above is in actuality true... man... Yamaha sure got their money's worth out of that 4MB sample ROM <grin>!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


(edit)  BTW, here's the MIDI for the MP3 that I linked to in my previous post -> http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Weeds_Music/Black_and_White_Live.mid for anyone who has the S-YXG50 (or any other XG compatable MIDI hardware... prolly will sound weird on GM hardware).

[oddiophile]

FYI, S-YXG50 emulates the MU50 and S-YXG100Plus is very much like the MU100

[oddiophile]

There were no MIDI files that came with XGEdit (XG Editor 95). The D_RP_02X.MID MIDI came from the "Yamaha XG Free Song Data Library". The link used to be http://www.yamaha-xg.com/english/xg , but it's long-since gone.

The old installer *did* come with a bunch of demo files.

Proof:
http://ftp.vgmusic.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=12464

[oddiophile]

If so, I could upload a ZIP of it here. The ZIP will be about 4.7MB (as I have all of 'em)

Please do

[Rich Nagel]

FYI, S-YXG50 emulates the MU50 and S-YXG100Plus is very much like the MU100

That's what I was thinking, thanks for the info I think I've decided on an MU50... that is, if I can actually find one here in the US, and not too pricey.

The old installer *did* come with a bunch of demo files. Proof: http://ftp.vgmusic.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=12464

Ahhh... I never realized that. It's been so long since I actually installed the XG Editor 95, I had forgotton; Dunno why I originally installed it, I think maybe to play around with the OLD S-YGX50 (installed on my W98 P233MMX PC, that was scrapped some time ago).

My current experimentation with the XG Editor has been simply copying from a USB backup drive that I have, so's I didn't see the installer recently.

Anyhow, after having a looksie at the installer, it appears that it only came with that first MIDI file on that page ("Robo Dude.mid")... and was played during the install process (it normally isn't copied to the installation dorectory). So, if you download that MIDI file, you'll have the one that came with the XG Editor.

The other file ("Far Worlds.mid") in that message thread is by the same author... I'll have to see if I can dig up more of his stuff, as I really liked those two BTW, when running the installer, "XGedit95 Setup theme - 'RoboDude' composed and produced by Dave Kelly".

Please do

I just realised that the maximum attachment size here in the forums is 1000KB per attachment... 'twould be a PITA to split it all up (4.7 megs worth). Lemme upload it to one of my web pages, and then you can download it from there.

I'm on a miserable dialup connection out here in the woods <grin>, so's it'll take me a while. Look for the file later today, after I upload it the link will be -> http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Yamaha_XG/Yamaha_XG_Free_Song_Data_Library.zip

[Rich Nagel]

OK, got it uploaded... per my previous post, snag it from here:

ZIP -> http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Yamaha_XG/Yamaha_XG_Free_Song_Data_Library.zip
Pic -> http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Yamaha_XG/Yamaha_XG_Free_Song_Data_Library.gif
Readme -> http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Yamaha_XG/Yamaha_XG_Free_Song_Data_Library.txt

BTW, I found all (I think) of David J. Kelly's stuff here -> http://www.megatrade.ru/Russian/Midi.html . BTW, one song of his on that page that really rocks is "Butt Blower" <grin>... hehe, *HATE* the song title <LOL>, but the song is great; really shows off the amp overdrive effects of the S-YXG50/XG hardware

[oddiophile]

An XG blast from the past:

http://www.psrtutorial.com/song/yamaha.html

These guys have the complete free MIDI library and even *more* stuff.

BTW, one song of his on that page that really rocks is "Butt Blower" <grin>... hehe, *HATE* the song title <LOL>, but the song is great; really shows off the amp overdrive effects of the S-YXG50/XG hardware.

I think I already posted an MP3 demo of that track in the XMP MIDI thread

David Kelly's sequences are awesome, but Sam Sketty's stuff is equally impressive. Some of the finest XG MIDI sequences ever created.

[Rich Nagel]

An XG blast from the past: http://www.psrtutorial.com/song/yamaha.html These guys have the complete free MIDI library and even *more* stuff.

Thanks for that link, lots of good stuff there -:)

BTW, weird thing; there is a total of 383 MIDI files in the ZIP that I posted. On the http://www.psrtutorial.com/song/yamaha.html page though, they list 134 files for the "Current XG Midi Library", and 155 files for the "Original XG Library Categories" (for a total of 289 MIDI files). All of the MIDIs in the ZIP that I posted came from the Yamaha Free Song Library when that web page was still online (Re: the text file that I linked to in my previous post), so's I'm not sure what's up with that (?).

I think I already posted an MP3 demo of that track in the XMP MIDI thread

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, on my miserable dialup out here in the woods I usually stay away from larg(ish) downloads. Things such as YouTube are (of course) a no-go as well.

David Kelly's sequences are awesome, but Sam Sketty's stuff is equally impressive. Some of the finest XG MIDI sequences ever created.

Thanks for the info I'll download that ZIP on that page as well

[Rich Nagel]

Folks,

Been "Rockin' in the Backwoods" again!

Here's a song that I had originally written back in 1995, which was later added to the soundtrack for Team Eternal's "Eternal DOOM". Most of the music that I had composed for Eternal DOOM was fairly "high-browed" type of stuff, but this song was one of the more driving rock pieces included with the game.

I have re-sequenced the song in Yamaha XG format, recorded it to an MP3, and uploaded it here, "DOOMin': Live!":

http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Weeds_Music/DOOMin_Live.mp3

Like the song "Black and White: Live!" that I posted earlier, the song is a live rock concert performance sort of thing, with a driving Hard Rock style that the screaming girls in the crowd and the audience in the MP3 seem to like! Again, crank up your speakers and rock-out, and cheer along with the crowd if you feel like it

[Rich Nagel]

P.S. Some more extremely cool XG MIDIs from Yamaha (cut 'n' pastes directly from the packs' readmes):

(from "Yamaha XG Verses GM")
03EG_XG.MID - Electric Guitar: In order to get that heavy guitar sound of a cranked-up amp, you used to need a collection of effect pedals. XG lets you say good-bye to such complications; ultimate guitar sound is at your fingertips, and you can adjust every detail of each effect. And remember that great wah distortion sound that's been impossible to reproduce? XG gives you an updated version that's even better than the sound you could get on a real electric guitar. Try it out!

(from "YAMAHA MU50 XG SONG SHOWCASE FILES")
21BIRD.MID - "Bird Of Paradise", White / White Flames Music

(from "Yamaha XG Wonderland", Note: this one is based on "D_RP_02X.MID" mentioned previously)
LIVE.MID - You are standing in the arena, waiting for the live concert to begin. See the effect settings, and how "Applause" and "Whistle" voices are used effectively.

[Pike84]

(from "Yamaha XG Verses GM")
03EG_XG.MID ... And remember that great wah distortion sound that's been impossible to reproduce? XG gives you an updated version that's even better than the sound you could get on a real electric guitar.

This kinda sounds like they didn't really nail it, so they just say that it's actually better than the original sound . *doesn't actually know anything about the sounds or devices in question*

[Rich Nagel]

This kinda sounds like they didn't really nail it, so they just say that it's actually better than the original sound .

Hehe, I never thought of it like that before <LOL>!

*doesn't actually know anything about the sounds or devices in question*

I'm fairly new to this XG "thang", but the S-YXG50 and DB50XG/MU10/MU50/MU80/SW#'s/etc... series of hardware is really quite a marvel. The core of these beasts is the effects processors (which I never knew about before; re: "Lisa Moore" mentioned in my first post in this thread); notably the distortion/overdrive/amplifier simulation(s) effects... they're quite realistic.

Note that some of them (e.g. the MU80) even have analog inputs and outputs (pre and post) so's you can connect a real guitar to it (analog out to an external amp), and use the unit's effect processors for your guitar (akin to the various effects "stomp" boxes that many musicians use).

Now mind you (refering to the first quote), I don't think that it sounds _better_ than a real electric guitar (especially, say, a real Fender Stratocaster through a real tube Marshall head, or a Telecaster through a tube Fender combo amp), but it's pretty damn respectable nonetheless

[(simply rambling on and getting sidetracked here) Why doesn't it sound as good as the above-mentioned real instruments and amps? Heh, well, _that_ (the same concept) is why that Fender and Marshall *still* make non solid-state tube amps... solid-state will NEVER have that "special" sound to them.]

Now, that of course is when using the effects processors... the (usual) unprocessed GM overdrive, distortion, and jazz guitar samples/patches on these units are quite weak and unrealistic (fairly bad) IMHO. But, add some of the XG hardware's amp simulation effects processor (with a few tweaked variation parameters), and you'll be rockin' in no time.

Heh, this coming from someone who was never into the "rockin' thang" before <grin>.

[Rich Nagel]

Been rockin' in the backwoods again ("Layla: Live!")!
Folks,

Been "Rockin' in the Backwoods again!

I took the MIDI file "Layla" (that is freely available all over the Internet), and re-sequenced the song in Yamaha XG format, recorded it to an MP3, and uploaded it here: http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Yamaha_XG/Layla_Live_XG.mp3 .

Like my own two other songs "Black and White: Live!" and "DOOMin': Live!" (previously uploaded/mentioned above), the song is a live rock concert performance sort of thing, with a driving Hard Rock style that the screaming girls in the crowd and the audience in the MP3 seem to like! Crank up your speakers and rock-out... oh, and cheer along with the crowd if you feel like it


Rich

P.S. If you have Yamaha XG compatable MIDI hardware (or the Yamaha S-YXG50 software synthesizer installed), here's the MIDI file -> http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Yamaha_XG/Layla_Live_XG.mid . Note that it will sound strange on non-XG (GS-only/GM-only) hardware.

[Rich Nagel]

Been "Rockin' in the Backwoods" again!

I extracted the music "At Doom's Gate" (by Robert Prince) from the "Hangar" level (Episode 1 Map 1) of id Software's DOOM, and then converted and optimized the MIDI file for Yamaha XG format. I then recorded it to an MP3, and uploaded it here -> http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Yamaha_XG/D_E1M1_XG.mp3 .

THAT is how "At Doom's Gate" should SHOULD on all Yamaha XG compatable hardware

P.S. If you have any Yamaha XG compatable hardware (or the Yamaha S-YXG50 software synthesizer), here's the MIDI file -> http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Yamaha_XG/D_E1M1_XG.mid

[Rich Nagel]

P.S. By the way, *this* is how the same song sounds without the Yamaha XG conversion and optimization: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLdO9mZ-RpY .

[Rich Nagel]

On a related note... "Protect-A-DOOM Pool Fence Company"

Hehe, this is a little something that I threw together back in 1998 after the development of Team Eternal's "Eternal DOOM" for id Software's "DOOM II".

Quite a few years before, I used to install child-protection pool fences for a company called "Protect-A-Child" (located down in Miami, Florida). This was a little joke map/WAD that I had created for DOOM II with a "pool fence theme", including a running DOOM II for DOS demo, as well as a replacement splash screen LOL!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4f5x7pEO20

[Rich Nagel]

Been "Rockin' in the Backwoods" again!

I extracted the title theme music "Grabbag" (by Lee Jackson) from Duke Nukem 3D, and then converted and optimized the MIDI file for Yamaha XG format. I then recorded it to an MP3, and uploaded it here: http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Yamaha_XG/Grabbag_XG.mp3 .

Listen to the song and watch a YouTube video version here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwsmnS-waCU .

That is how "Grabbag" SHOULD/COULD sound on all Yamaha XG compatable hardware (e.g. DB50XG, MU50, S-YXG50)

By the way, this is how the same song sounds *without* the Yamaha XG conversion and optimization: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzU1EH3u0X0 .

If you have any Yamaha XG compatable MIDI hardware (or even simply the Yamaha S-YXG50 software synthesizer), here's the MIDI file: http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/Yamaha_XG/Grabbag_XG.mid .