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[Whistling Fred]

Hi,

I was wondering if it's possible to save a playlist with SID tunes that supports the subtunes themselves?

I've been looking all over but I haven't found anything on this.

As of now, I'm still using Winamp 2 with the ancient SIDAmp plugin, because I have a huge, awesome playlist for it with subtunes. However, the SID plugin for XMPlay has a terrific sound, I'm absoultely mad about it and I want to change over to XMPlay to listen to SIDs.

The format of my Winamp playlist looks like this:

#EXTINF:185, Hunter's Moon
"d:/hvsc/MUSICIANS/G/Gray_Matt/Hunters_Moon.sid" 2 3:5
#EXTINF:247, Hunter's Moon
"d:/hvsc/MUSICIANS/G/Gray_Matt/Hunters_Moon.sid" 1 4:7
#EXTINF:35, Hunter's Moon
"d:/hvsc/MUSICIANS/G/Gray_Matt/Hunters_Moon.sid" 4 0:35
#EXTINF:57, Hunter's Moon
"d:/hvsc/MUSICIANS/G/Gray_Matt/Hunters_Moon.sid" 3 0:57
#EXTINF:41, Hypa-Ball
"d:/hvsc/MUSICIANS/T/Tinman_Keith/Hypa-Ball.sid" 2 0:41
#EXTINF:16, Hypa-Ball
"d:/hvsc/MUSICIANS/T/Tinman_Keith/Hypa-Ball.sid" 3 0:16
#EXTINF:123, Hypa-Ball
"d:/hvsc/MUSICIANS/T/Tinman_Keith/Hypa-Ball.sid" 1 2:3

etc.

In the path-filename line, the number after the .sid" part is the subtune number, this tells SIDAmp with subtune to play, and after that it's the songlength, extracted from the songlength datase that comes with HVSC.

Obvioulsy, I wouldn't need the songlength bit at the end in a playlist for XMPlay, as the SID plugin has built in songlength database support, but how can make and save a playlist that tells XMPlay which subtunes to play?

Thanks in advance for your input.

[Dotpitch]

You should do something like this:

Really? Is there a FAQ on that somewhere?

No FAQ AFAIK, but they are just standard text files. Here's the entry syntax:

filename::NSF,[1 based songno|$songno],[title],[time(h:m:s)],[loop(h:m:s)][-],[fade(h:m:s)],[loopcount]

Here's an example list:

# Solstice (CSG Imagesoft) [1989]
# Composer: Tim Follin

Solstice (1989)(CSG Imagesoft).nsf::NSF,$06,Title - Tim Follin - Solstice - ©1989 CSG Imagesoft,2:57,,1
Solstice (1989)(CSG Imagesoft).nsf::NSF,$01,Begin - Tim Follin - Solstice - ©1989 CSG Imagesoft,26,,1
Solstice (1989)(CSG Imagesoft).nsf::NSF,$02,Main Theme - Tim Follin - Solstice - ©1989 CSG Imagesoft,112,113,7
Solstice (1989)(CSG Imagesoft).nsf::NSF,$05,Ending - Tim Follin - Solstice - ©1989 CSG Imagesoft,81,,1
Solstice (1989)(CSG Imagesoft).nsf::NSF,$04,Success - Tim Follin - Solstice - ©1989 CSG Imagesoft,18,,1
Solstice (1989)(CSG Imagesoft).nsf::NSF,$03,Failure - Tim Follin - Solstice - ©1989 CSG Imagesoft,12,,1
Solstice (1989)(CSG Imagesoft).nsf::NSF,$07,Unknown 01 - Tim Follin - Solstice - ©1989 CSG Imagesoft,168,,1
Solstice (1989)(CSG Imagesoft).nsf::NSF,$11,Unknown 02 - Tim Follin - Solstice - ©1989 CSG Imagesoft,10,,1
Solstice (1989)(CSG Imagesoft).nsf::NSF,$12,Unknown 03 - Tim Follin - Solstice - ©1989 CSG Imagesoft,4,,2
Solstice (1989)(CSG Imagesoft).nsf::NSF,$13,Unknown 04 - Tim Follin - Solstice - ©1989 CSG Imagesoft,4,,2

I have no idea what xmp-sid makes of it, but you could give it a shot .

[Whistling Fred]

Thanks, I'll look into that. 

[Whistling Fred]

Using that example, I've made up this m3u playlist file:

#EXTM3U
#EXTINF:421,G_I_Hero
D:\HVSC\MUSICIANS\T\Tel_Jeroen\G_I_Hero.sid::SID,$01,GI Hero,7:01,,1

But XMplay won't recognise it, I get red lines in the playlist.

Am I doing something wrong or it just won't work?

[Ian @ un4seen]

I'm afraid those special playlist entries won't work with native XMPlay plugins. XMPlay doesn't currently have native support for sub-song playlist entries, but it is on the "look into it" list.

[Whistling Fred]

That's fantastic news Ian!

I look forward to it being implemented.

It'd be an incredible feature. When that happens, XMPlay becomes the ultimate software SID player.

[Ian @ un4seen]

To avoid raising expectations too high and subsequent disappointment, I should mention that this (together with separated CUE sheet tracks) has been in the "look into it" list for a while now, after the first look didn't work out. I will be looking into it again for 3.7 though

[Whistling Fred]

Nevertheless, I'll be sitting at the edge of my seat. 

[Whistling Fred]

Hi Ian,

I tried the new XMPlay, and, I take it this feature we discussed here is still not impemented in 3.7?

[Ian @ un4seen]

Yes, I'm afraid so. I knew there was something I had forgotten!

[Whistling Fred]

Not to worry, maybe next time then.

It's high time we had this feature though. 

When is the next update likely to be released?

[Ian @ un4seen]

Well, history suggests 3.8 will arrive in December ... There may be a 3.7.1 release before that though. Regarding subsong playlist entries, I'm still not sure about the best way to implement that, but I'll see if I can work something out.

[Whistling Fred]

If I may suggest some ideas.

The saved playlist file itself could follow the format of the ancient SIDAmp 1.4 beta plugin (that's Winamp 2.95 + SIDAmp plugin).

As an example, it looks like this:

"d:/HVSC/MUSICIANS/G/Gray_Matt/Hunters_Moon.sid" 1
"d:/HVSC/MUSICIANS/G/Gray_Matt/Hunters_Moon.sid" 2
"d:/HVSC/MUSICIANS/G/Gray_Matt/Hunters_Moon.sid" 3

Each line represents a separate playlist entry in the main playlist window of the player, as if they were separate music files, and the number at the end after the .sid" bit tells the player which subtune to play.

In case you need those two programs, you can get them here:

http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia/Audio/Audio-Players/Winamp-2.shtml
http://members.optusnet.com.au/g.davies/sidamp/in_sid.zip

When loading a music file that has subtunes, XMPlay could ask the user whether to display the subtunes in the main playlist window or just the base file. A window could come up with options, like: yes, no, all, +never ask again etc. Also, this could be set from the options menu.

For the main playlist window of the player, subtunes could be displayed in a tree-like fashion, with a + sign at the front so the user could expand & collapse them. Something like this:

+Hunter's Moon
 subtune 1
 subtune 2
 subtune 3

Again, this could be set whether to display them like a tree or just the base file like it is now.

For SID files, the songlengths database support should still work.

Please remember that there are other music formats with subtunes, not just SIDs. Lots of custom Amiga chiptunes, MODs etc. The player already knows how to handle these though, only the playlist support needs to be added.

Let me know what you think, I hope you find this useful.

[Ian @ un4seen]

Thanks for the suggestions. Regarding the playlist entries, what I currently have in mind is that the subsong is appended to the filename (with an invalid character as a delimiter), which would fit in with XMPlay's system of uniquely identifing tracks by their filename (the subsong track entries would be unique). The user could manually add a subsong to a track entry via the "Track info" window, which might allow subsong playlist entries to work to some extent with existing plugins, but proper support will require some modification to the plugins and the plugin system, eg. it isn't currently possible for XMPlay to request information on subsongs from plugins.

[Whistling Fred]

With this via the 'Track Info' window method you mentioned, would that mean that the user would need to add subtunes to the playlist one by one, for each music file that's loaded into the playlist?

[Ian @ un4seen]

Yes, the "Track info" method of adding subsong info to a playlist entry would indeed need to be repeated for each subsong, eg. you would add the file to the playlist and add a subsong to it via "Track info", then add the file again and add another subsong to that one, and repeat. The problem is XMPlay can't currently ask a plugin how many subsongs a file has until it plays the file. So XMPlay could possibly automatically add sub-song entries today (without plugin modification), but not until the file is first played. Still, I guess that's preferable to manually adding them one by one! I'll look into it to see if it'll work.