Author Topic: Suggestions for 2.8  (Read 62120 times)

Zarggg

  • Posts: 1242
Suggestions for 2.8
« on: 18 May '03 - 21:40 »
Yes, I know it's early, but I did it for 2.6, so why not? :)

We've already got one I like, which will follow:
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Oh, and I've thought about a MIDI pattern display before, as well.  That would be NICE.
Whether or not this is possible, I would at least like to have a list of what instruments are used on what channel. (Assuming native MIDI translation is implemented.)

Also, my own addition is this:  I still want a built-in oscilloscope.  Yes, I know there is one on the Support Site, but I'd rather have one not as thick.  Also, built-in vis. randomization would be nice, as I still can't get Rappa to work without crashing XMPlay.  Perhaps we could also have skin randomization?

Just some thoughts for the future.

Guan

  • Guest
Re: Suggestions for 2.8
« Reply #1 on: 18 May '03 - 23:14 »
I would like to know what encoder that was used for the current playing mp3 song  :idea:

Pike84

  • Posts: 1398
Re: Suggestions for 2.8
« Reply #2 on: 19 May '03 - 00:15 »
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I would like to know what encoder that was used for the current playing mp3 song :idea:

That's a good idea :D. I just don't know at all if it's possible.. is it?

Alphas ideas were nice too. Perhaps skin and visualization related suggestions aren't so important, but still nothing bloaty here :).
« Last Edit: 19 May '03 - 00:20 by Pike84 »

Rah'Dick

  • XMPlay Support
  • Posts: 932
Re: Suggestions for 2.8
« Reply #3 on: 19 May '03 - 01:28 »
A friend of mine still wants DSP support... ;)
And he's willing to code the plugins himself, even...
He's fiddling with the BASS DSP engine at the moment to get some Dolby ProLogic encoding.

Greebo

  • Posts: 59
Re: Suggestions for 2.8
« Reply #4 on: 19 May '03 - 01:55 »
Oo but 2.7 is so goooood. Umm.. I dunno. Now that we have funky filenames in the extended playlist, maybe an option for full pathnames or just lone filenames. Seriously just how fantastic is this global info window hotkey guys? Very fantastic. *presses it lots*

Info goes up. Info goes down. Info goes up. Info goes down. Info goes up..

velusip

  • Posts: 37
Re: Suggestions for 2.8
« Reply #5 on: 19 May '03 - 02:43 »
Hnm. xmplay 1.4 was complete. A few bugs, but even so it was sooo good.

Now at 2.5..6 with ugly skinnings [ no offense to the creators, you did a great job, I just think the original interface was the best ever ] and utilizing plugins I witness xmplay crash. I appreciate the new plugin features so now I can listen to all formats in one single playlist, but I miss the solid stability of the past.

Here is my idea, and understand I am clueless to how this might be implemented, but make xmplay never crash. Even if it was a plug that crashed, let xmplay live on. That is all xmplay needs... and an optional old-style interface ;þ

Brightguy

  • Posts: 252
Re: XMPlay 1.4 skin
« Reply #6 on: 19 May '03 - 04:50 »
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Now at 2.5..6 with ugly skinnings [ no offense to the creators, you did a great job, I just think the original interface was the best ever ]
...
That is all xmplay needs... and an optional old-style interface ;þ

For now, I guess the Vintage skin will be the closest you can come. I'll update the skin for 2.7, taking advantage of the new head.bmp. If there are any other suggestions, let me know. :)

Pike84

  • Posts: 1398
Re: Suggestions for 2.8
« Reply #7 on: 19 May '03 - 04:50 »
Velusip:
A great new feature huh :P? Um, did you know that this prog is made by a human ;D?
« Last Edit: 19 May '03 - 04:51 by Pike84 »

JimVonMoon

  • Posts: 70
Re: Suggestions for 2.8
« Reply #8 on: 19 May '03 - 10:09 »
I think that an option to start XMPlay always in tray would be handy. Now since we have got "Open/Add" option in tray mode I don't need to watch GUI anymore. ;D Actually, I've tried to do it by myself: I've added -tray parameter to my XMPlay desktop shortcut (and it works) but when I launch eg. mp3 directly from Windows Commander then XMPlay starts in its normal window. I've also changed HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\XMPlay\shell\open\command key but it seems that XMPlay restores it every time it starts. I just thought that it would be a good idea to restore this key only if it doesn't exist. :idea:

BTW. I still think that all settings should be stored in an .ini file in XMPlay's directory. It would not only be more convenient to modify those settings but eg. on computers in my school access to regedit.exe is banned by the administrator so it's impossible to change anything in the registry (at least not without additional software :evil: ).

Torkell

  • Posts: 1169
Re: Suggestions for 2.8
« Reply #9 on: 19 May '03 - 11:30 »
Who needs regedit?
In my school, I can get all sorts of things by using Word (except for some stuff, which is blocked by the brain-dead RM security wotsit). Do a registry dump of HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE/SOFTWARE/Microsoft/Windows/CurrentVersion and HKEY_CURRENT_USER/SOFTWARE/Microsoft/Windows/CurrentVersion by calling regedit with the approiate parameters from a Word macro (use Word to view the file, the switches are in plain text somewhere in it), create a new .reg file with the approiate policy settings changed, and merge that. Quite easy to do, and very effective. Now, if only I could restart the shell, then I would be able to get a lot more things... :evil: :evil:

<edit>The school's admin knows about this, and lets me do it. I've found a few holes for him to plug.</edit>
« Last Edit: 19 May '03 - 11:31 by BoggyB »

Greebo

  • Posts: 59
Re: Suggestions for 2.8
« Reply #10 on: 19 May '03 - 11:36 »
This is an official "me too!" post regarding always in tray :P

Guan

  • Guest
Re: Suggestions for 2.8
« Reply #11 on: 19 May '03 - 14:42 »
Ian i think a god thing to do whith XMPlay is to make two separate XMPlay programs one Lite and one Full version so that those who think the current 2.5, 2.6, 2.7 are bulky

Olego

  • Posts: 557
Stuff
« Reply #12 on: 19 May '03 - 16:08 »
How come I hear sound when amplification is 0?  Isn't it there to mute XMPlay while letting everything else run unmuted?

~Olego~

JimVonMoon

  • Posts: 70
Re: Suggestions for 2.8
« Reply #13 on: 19 May '03 - 20:04 »
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Who needs regedit?

Well, yes - it is possible to "hack" (hehe ;D) registry on protected machine but editing xmplay.ini file would be a lot easier and more comfortable method. :)
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Now, if only I could restart the shell, then I would be able to get a lot more things... :evil: :evil:

LOL, you must be a real Genius of Evil and Master of Disaster. :D
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Ian i think a god thing to do whith XMPlay is to make two separate XMPlay programs one Lite and one Full version so that those who think the current 2.5, 2.6, 2.7 are bulky

I don't think that it's a good idea. Such splits are never good. It would only take more time and work to prepare a new release. XMPlay is already fast, small and it looks good too. :) As for the interface - for a new user it might be a bit weird and confusing but it's only a matter of getting used to it.

Zarggg

  • Posts: 1242
Re: Suggestions for 2.8
« Reply #14 on: 19 May '03 - 20:58 »
I'm holding off on suggesting any optional interface variables before %xmpdir%\xmplay.ini is fully implemented.

As to the Encoder detection, it may be possible, but it involves digging into the file header, and it may not be standard for all file-types (i.e., at the same address). Therefore, I really have nothing to add to that.

BoggyB, didn't you say you were going to make it work with the color changing as well? *forgets exactly what the discussion was about all those ages ago*

Finally, is someone willing to create a WinAmp-styled skin? I'd start messing around, but I don't have the time, ATM.

Edit: Changed %prog_root% to %xmpdir%.  The latter is less confusing.
« Last Edit: 20 May '03 - 17:37 by Zarggg »

Torkell

  • Posts: 1169
Re: Suggestions for 2.8
« Reply #15 on: 19 May '03 - 21:04 »
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Well, yes - it is possible to "hack" (hehe ;D) registry on protected machine but editing xmplay.ini file would be a lot easier and more comfortable method. :)
LOL, you must be a real Genius of Evil and Master of Disaster. :D

Not really. I'm no "script kiddie" if that's what you're thinking. But I do like nosing around, and the extra things are stuff like the Run command, Find, Shut down (at school we have a RM logoff program) and so forth. I've got the usual tools (nmap & nc, but I've not used them against anything other than my own pc... yet :evil:) and a couple of my own (one will remotly shut down any WinNT/2k/XP computer you can get admin access to (needs domain admin if in a domain). It's nothing much, most of the code in it does parameter parsing and security token handling. But after that, just one line of code is what's needed.
I'll send you a copy if you like (the command is fully documented with an example in the MSDN library - look for InitiateSystemShutdown).

Anyway... back on topic now.
Guan: Personally, I'm happy with one program. It's quite small (245KB), and uses less resources and stuff than others. Besides, we'd have people moaning about what should and shouldn't be in Lite, and risk it turning into a free and a paid-for version. Don't want that happening. :o
With the MP3 encoder, it really depends if the encoder puts a tag in to say what it is. If it doesn't, then it'll be very hard if not impossible (you would need to rely on encoder "features")

JimVonMoon: The original .INI poll has been bumped (well it will be when I finish typing this and find which page it's now on ;D)

velusip: It's all very well making XMPlay uncrashable, but what if Windows self-destructs?
Speaking of which: Ian, :idea: could you check that XMPlay is properly processing quit messages when it's in the tray. Should I shut my computer down when it's in the tray, XMPlay will not save it's settings. A minor problem, but annoying when you're trundling through a 560+ song playlist.

Olego: Amplification is there to let XMPlay use the full dynamic range, and avoid clipping. With MP3/OGG/WAV it's usually best leaving it on max (and disabling any auto amp for a WAV, as that's pure PCM data), but with MODs it ensures that you get the full range without clipping. Try pausing XMPlay instead, or using the main volume control (but I'm not sure just what the main volume control changes. It's not the master volume, I know that much).

I think this post is long enough now ;D

sergeymen

  • Posts: 29
Re: Suggestions for 2.8
« Reply #16 on: 19 May '03 - 21:20 »
I am very impressed with the improvements in 2.7. Visualizations now look and work really well, especially spec'n'hop, which is by far my favorite. Congratulations.

However, when you enlarge the visualization window, the demand for resources increases insanely. Do you think it is possible to add a fullscreen capability, to run the visualizations at a lower resolution but full screen?

Also, xmplay does not play concatenated ogg files (i.e. ogg files that consist of multiple other ogg files merged together by simply using the copy command.) It only plays the first embedded file. Foobar2k and Winamp 2.81 have full support for these files (which, as i understand, satisfy the ogg specification at xiph.org); foobar2k treats the embedded files as separate entities while winamp updates the playlist entry (based on tags) when the next embedded file begins playing. Am I making sense? I don't really know the terminology that well, as you may have noticed. I do believe that it is crucial to have support for such files.

Tsorovan

  • Posts: 1247
Re: Suggestions for 2.8
« Reply #17 on: 19 May '03 - 22:35 »
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[...]
As to the Encoder detection, it may be possible, but it involves digging into the file header, and it may not be standard for all file-types (i.e., at the same address).  Therefore, I really have nothing to add to that.


It sure enough is possible, but it requires analyzing at least a multitude of frames for full certainty, ALL frames in the file. Check out EncSpot for instance. A program like this is much more suited for the task. Adding it to XMPlay would indeed be bloating.
« Last Edit: 19 May '03 - 22:35 by Tsorovan »

Olego

  • Posts: 557
Sound
« Reply #18 on: 20 May '03 - 07:34 »
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Olego: Amplification is there to let XMPlay use the full dynamic range, and avoid clipping. With MP3/OGG/WAV it's usually best leaving it on max (and disabling any auto amp for a WAV, as that's pure PCM data), but with MODs it ensures that you get the full range without clipping. Try pausing XMPlay instead, or using the main volume control (but I'm not sure just what the main volume control changes. It's not the master volume, I know that much).


Well, actually, I'm personally after some of the tracks that Digitally Imported occasionally plays.  I'm happy with just letting XMPlay write it to disk and sit in the systray, but I want a second copy of XMPlay play the music I want listen to at the spur of the moment...  And that's where Amplification comes in handy.  Before, I set it to 0 and heard no sound whatsoever, which was good.  Now, I set it to 0 and I hear stuff, which is confusing because I want the system volume to be the same 'cause I still want to play music, and I don't want XMPlay to be paused 'cause then it doesn't write to disk, but I do want it to amplify times 0.

And what does Amplification do, anyway?  Since I have a final on Signals and Systems tomorrow, it'd help if someone could explain this in terms of DTFT and H(w) and h(w) etc.  ;D

~Olego~


Torkell

  • Posts: 1169
Re: Suggestions for 2.8
« Reply #19 on: 20 May '03 - 10:18 »
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I'm holding off on suggesting any optional interface variables before %prog_root%\xmplay.ini is fully implemented.

Have you voted at the poll yet? I dredged it back up from page 6.
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BoggyB, didn't you say you were going to make it work with the color changing as well? *forgets exactly what the discussion was about all those ages ago*

I've forgotten as well. Let me see if I can find it...
I think this is what you meant. Here's the original request by Ralesk:
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Ian: can we have a feature in 2.7 that windows' system colours get used in this skin?  I mean, I use something brown insyead of the silver, it could be polled from windows and xmplay would re-colour the skin accordingly ^^

--
Ralesk the maximalist

And my reply:
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Here's how you could make it work: add a config option to "enable windows colours" either in the skinning kit or XMPlay itself (another one for the INI file, which does exist ("xmplay.ini")and is currently used by plugins, I believe), and either in the mask or the actual skin (depending whether this is a skinner or user option) have a palette index (e.g. 1=highlight, 2=shadow, 3=gradient start, 4=gradient, 5=gradient end, 6=window background, etc) and just grab the colours from windows (there's a couple of standard API functions to do just that).

And Ian's reply:
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Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't see this working - for example, how would these special indexes be used within buttons/etc... it'd also be a lot of extra work for the skinner (and me).

Basically, I don't see anyway this sort of thing will be implemented. Because even if it is possible, it won't be simple, and will no doubt result in a degree of bloatage for a feature that is not really required.

The simplest thing is to ask RD for the files, and colour them in :D



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Well, actually, I'm personally after some of the tracks that Digitally Imported occasionally plays.  I'm happy with just letting XMPlay write it to disk and sit in the systray, but I want a second copy of XMPlay play the music I want listen to at the spur of the moment...  And that's where Amplification comes in handy.  Before, I set it to 0 and heard no sound whatsoever, which was good.  Now, I set it to 0 and I hear stuff, which is confusing because I want the system volume to be the same 'cause I still want to play music, and I don't want XMPlay to be paused 'cause then it doesn't write to disk, but I do want it to amplify times 0.

How about pausing the copy playing the sound, not the one recording?
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And what does Amplification do, anyway?  Since I have a final on Signals and Systems tomorrow, it'd help if someone could explain this in terms of DTFT and H(w) and h(w) etc.  ;D

DTFT? H(w)? h(w)? Anyone know what they mean? ;D

Ian @ un4seen

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 20389
Re: Suggestions for 2.8
« Reply #20 on: 20 May '03 - 13:48 »
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A friend of mine still wants DSP support... ;)
And he's willing to code the plugins himself, even...

We'll have to talk ;) ... If there's enough interest in creating DSP plugins, support will be added.

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How come I hear sound when amplification is 0? Isn't it there to mute XMPlay while letting everything else run unmuted?

As Boggy says, it's there to allow you to maximise the dynamic range and avoid clipping... to mute, put the volume slider to 0 :)

The reason you hear sound at amp level 0 is that it uses a logarithmic scale (MODs always did, and now streams do too in 2.7). This means that the relative level change is constant between each step all along the slider, which is good for auto-amp.

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Also, xmplay does not play concatenated ogg files (i.e. ogg files that consist of multiple other ogg files merged together by simply using the copy command.) It only plays the first embedded file.

XMPlay does support chained OGGs when streaming (eg. internet radio), but as you say, not in local files. The reason being that it's a bit fiddly (if you want to be able to seek across all the chained OGGs), and I figured hardly anyone would be using them anyway - so I didn't bother :)

I'll look into it for 2.8 (or maybe 2.7a if there are enough good little suggestions)... do you know anywhere to download examples of chained OGG files? Sure, it's simple to make my own, but I'd also like to see evidence that they are in general use :D

Guan

  • Guest
Re: Suggestions for 2.8
« Reply #21 on: 20 May '03 - 15:41 »
If Lite and Full version of XMPlay is hard to make then there are more ways to make XMPlay Lite.
For example if there are 2 separate programs one program is XMPlayer itselfe and the playlist, the second program could be a information window of the current playing media including encoder info and they are linked together when you hit the info button or another button in XMPlayer the information window starts.
Hard to explain for me in english but i hope all anderstand what i mean  :)

Tsorovan

  • Posts: 1247
Re: Suggestions for 2.8
« Reply #22 on: 20 May '03 - 16:42 »
Not to piss on anyone, but I don't really see the point in adding such complexity as codec analyzer into a player. Basically, checking what codec has been used will only happen once, or at maximum, a couple of times. If you need to know it more often than that, well then you should mark your files. I always add codec + bitrate to the album dirs in my MP3 "collection".

Of course, this is Ian's decision, I just like to discuss things.

sergeymen

  • Posts: 29
Re: Suggestions for 2.8
« Reply #23 on: 20 May '03 - 17:16 »
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do you know anywhere to download examples of chained OGG files? Sure, it's simple to make my own, but I'd also like to see evidence that they are in general use :D


I have not come across any chained oggs online or on peer to peer networks, but questions about such files have come up on the ogg vorbis users list multiple times. But, then, there are not that many ogg files on the net period. I still think that adding support for chained files is necessary.

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I don't really see the point in adding such complexity as codec analyzer into a player.


I agree. I think I have come accross standalone programs that do codec detections. This will only slow the player down.

Brightguy

  • Posts: 252
Re: Suggestions for 2.8
« Reply #24 on: 20 May '03 - 21:35 »
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Finally, is someone willing to create a WinAmp-styled skin? I'd start messing around, but I don't have the time, ATM.

I briefly started one when you first asked, but I've been pretty busy since then. (If you had of asked a month or two earlier I probably could have found the time...) Anyway, I'll see what I can do in the upcoming months. It will never be perfect, of course. (For example currently the position slider would have to be the same of the regular sliders.)