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[Zarggg]

Yes, I know it's early, but I did it for 2.6, so why not?

We've already got one I like, which will follow:

Oh, and I've thought about a MIDI pattern display before, as well.  That would be NICE.

Whether or not this is possible, I would at least like to have a list of what instruments are used on what channel. (Assuming native MIDI translation is implemented.)

Also, my own addition is this:  I still want a built-in oscilloscope.  Yes, I know there is one on the Support Site, but I'd rather have one not as thick.  Also, built-in vis. randomization would be nice, as I still can't get Rappa to work without crashing XMPlay.  Perhaps we could also have skin randomization?

Just some thoughts for the future.

[Guan]

I would like to know what encoder that was used for the current playing mp3 song  :idea:

[Pike84]

I would like to know what encoder that was used for the current playing mp3 song  :idea:

That's a good idea . I just don't know at all if it's possible.. is it?

Alphas ideas were nice too. Perhaps skin and visualization related suggestions aren't so important, but still nothing bloaty here .

[Rah'Dick]

A friend of mine still wants DSP support...
And he's willing to code the plugins himself, even...
He's fiddling with the BASS DSP engine at the moment to get some Dolby ProLogic encoding.

[Greebo]

Oo but 2.7 is so goooood. Umm.. I dunno. Now that we have funky filenames in the extended playlist, maybe an option for full pathnames or just lone filenames. Seriously just how fantastic is this global info window hotkey guys? Very fantastic. *presses it lots*

Info goes up. Info goes down. Info goes up. Info goes down. Info goes up..

[velusip]

Hnm. xmplay 1.4 was complete. A few bugs, but even so it was sooo good.

Now at 2.5..6 with ugly skinnings [ no offense to the creators, you did a great job, I just think the original interface was the best ever ] and utilizing plugins I witness xmplay crash. I appreciate the new plugin features so now I can listen to all formats in one single playlist, but I miss the solid stability of the past.

Here is my idea, and understand I am clueless to how this might be implemented, but make xmplay never crash. Even if it was a plug that crashed, let xmplay live on. That is all xmplay needs... and an optional old-style interface ;þ

[Brightguy]

Now at 2.5..6 with ugly skinnings [ no offense to the creators, you did a great job, I just think the original interface was the best ever ]
...
That is all xmplay needs... and an optional old-style interface ;þ

For now, I guess the Vintage skin will be the closest you can come.  I'll update the skin for 2.7, taking advantage of the new head.bmp.  If there are any other suggestions, let me know.

[Pike84]

Velusip:
A great new feature huh ? Um, did you know that this prog is made by a human ?

[JimVonMoon]

I think that an option to start XMPlay always in tray would be handy. Now since we have got "Open/Add" option in tray mode I don't need to watch GUI anymore. Actually, I've tried to do it by myself: I've added -tray parameter to my XMPlay desktop shortcut (and it works) but when I launch eg. mp3 directly from Windows Commander then XMPlay starts in its normal window. I've also changed HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\XMPlay\shell\open\command key but it seems that XMPlay restores it every time it starts. I just thought that it would be a good idea to restore this key only if it doesn't exist. :idea:

BTW. I still think that all settings should be stored in an .ini file in XMPlay's directory. It would not only be more convenient to modify those settings but eg. on computers in my school access to regedit.exe is banned by the administrator so it's impossible to change anything in the registry (at least not without additional software :evil: ).

[Torkell]

Who needs regedit?
In my school, I can get all sorts of things by using Word (except for some stuff, which is blocked by the brain-dead RM security wotsit). Do a registry dump of HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE/SOFTWARE/Microsoft/Windows/CurrentVersion and HKEY_CURRENT_USER/SOFTWARE/Microsoft/Windows/CurrentVersion by calling regedit with the approiate parameters from a Word macro (use Word to view the file, the switches are in plain text somewhere in it), create a new .reg file with the approiate policy settings changed, and merge that. Quite easy to do, and very effective. Now, if only I could restart the shell, then I would be able to get a lot more things... :evil: :evil:

<edit>The school's admin knows about this, and lets me do it. I've found a few holes for him to plug.</edit>

[Greebo]

This is an official "me too!" post regarding always in tray :P

[Guan]

Ian i think a god thing to do whith XMPlay is to make two separate XMPlay programs one Lite and one Full version so that those who think the current 2.5, 2.6, 2.7 are bulky

[Olego]

How come I hear sound when amplification is 0?  Isn't it there to mute XMPlay while letting everything else run unmuted?

~Olego~

[JimVonMoon]

Who needs regedit?

Well, yes - it is possible to "hack" (hehe ) registry on protected machine but editing xmplay.ini file would be a lot easier and more comfortable method.

Now, if only I could restart the shell, then I would be able to get a lot more things... :evil: :evil:

LOL, you must be a real Genius of Evil and Master of Disaster.

Ian i think a god thing to do whith XMPlay is to make two separate XMPlay programs one Lite and one Full version so that those who think the current 2.5, 2.6, 2.7 are bulky

I don't think that it's a good idea. Such splits are never good. It would only take more time and work to prepare a new release. XMPlay is already fast, small and it looks good too. As for the interface - for a new user it might be a bit weird and confusing but it's only a matter of getting used to it.

[Zarggg]

I'm holding off on suggesting any optional interface variables before %xmpdir%\xmplay.ini is fully implemented.

As to the Encoder detection, it may be possible, but it involves digging into the file header, and it may not be standard for all file-types (i.e., at the same address).  Therefore, I really have nothing to add to that.

BoggyB, didn't you say you were going to make it work with the color changing as well? *forgets exactly what the discussion was about all those ages ago*

Finally, is someone willing to create a WinAmp-styled skin?  I'd start messing around, but I don't have the time, ATM.

Edit: Changed %prog_root% to %xmpdir%.  The latter is less confusing.

[Torkell]

Well, yes - it is possible to "hack" (hehe ) registry on protected machine but editing xmplay.ini file would be a lot easier and more comfortable method.
LOL, you must be a real Genius of Evil and Master of Disaster.

Not really. I'm no "script kiddie" if that's what you're thinking. But I do like nosing around, and the extra things are stuff like the Run command, Find, Shut down (at school we have a RM logoff program) and so forth. I've got the usual tools (nmap & nc, but I've not used them against anything other than my own pc... yet :evil:) and a couple of my own (one will remotly shut down any WinNT/2k/XP computer you can get admin access to (needs domain admin if in a domain). It's nothing much, most of the code in it does parameter parsing and security token handling. But after that, just one line of code is what's needed.
I'll send you a copy if you like (the command is fully documented with an example in the MSDN library - look for InitiateSystemShutdown).

Anyway... back on topic now.
Guan: Personally, I'm happy with one program. It's quite small (245KB), and uses less resources and stuff than others. Besides, we'd have people moaning about what should and shouldn't be in Lite, and risk it turning into a free and a paid-for version. Don't want that happening.
With the MP3 encoder, it really depends if the encoder puts a tag in to say what it is. If it doesn't, then it'll be very hard if not impossible (you would need to rely on encoder "features")

JimVonMoon: The original .INI poll has been bumped (well it will be when I finish typing this and find which page it's now on )

velusip: It's all very well making XMPlay uncrashable, but what if Windows self-destructs?
Speaking of which: Ian, :idea: could you check that XMPlay is properly processing quit messages when it's in the tray. Should I shut my computer down when it's in the tray, XMPlay will not save it's settings. A minor problem, but annoying when you're trundling through a 560+ song playlist.

Olego: Amplification is there to let XMPlay use the full dynamic range, and avoid clipping. With MP3/OGG/WAV it's usually best leaving it on max (and disabling any auto amp for a WAV, as that's pure PCM data), but with MODs it ensures that you get the full range without clipping. Try pausing XMPlay instead, or using the main volume control (but I'm not sure just what the main volume control changes. It's not the master volume, I know that much).

I think this post is long enough now

[sergeymen]

I am very impressed with the improvements in 2.7. Visualizations now look and work really well, especially spec'n'hop, which is by far my favorite. Congratulations.

However, when you enlarge the visualization window, the demand for resources increases insanely. Do you think it is possible to add a fullscreen capability, to run the visualizations at a lower resolution but full screen?

Also, xmplay does not play concatenated ogg files (i.e. ogg files that consist of multiple other ogg files merged together by simply using the copy command.) It only plays the first embedded file. Foobar2k and Winamp 2.81 have full support for these files (which, as i understand, satisfy the ogg specification at xiph.org); foobar2k treats the embedded files as separate entities while winamp updates the playlist entry (based on tags) when the next embedded file begins playing. Am I making sense? I don't really know the terminology that well, as you may have noticed. I do believe that it is crucial to have support for such files.

[Tsorovan]

[...]
As to the Encoder detection, it may be possible, but it involves digging into the file header, and it may not be standard for all file-types (i.e., at the same address).  Therefore, I really have nothing to add to that.

It sure enough is possible, but it requires analyzing at least a multitude of frames — for full certainty, ALL frames in the file. Check out EncSpot for instance. A program like this is much more suited for the task. Adding it to XMPlay would indeed be bloating.

[Olego]

Olego: Amplification is there to let XMPlay use the full dynamic range, and avoid clipping. With MP3/OGG/WAV it's usually best leaving it on max (and disabling any auto amp for a WAV, as that's pure PCM data), but with MODs it ensures that you get the full range without clipping. Try pausing XMPlay instead, or using the main volume control (but I'm not sure just what the main volume control changes. It's not the master volume, I know that much).

Well, actually, I'm personally after some of the tracks that Digitally Imported occasionally plays.  I'm happy with just letting XMPlay write it to disk and sit in the systray, but I want a second copy of XMPlay play the music I want listen to at the spur of the moment...  And that's where Amplification comes in handy.  Before, I set it to 0 and heard no sound whatsoever, which was good.  Now, I set it to 0 and I hear stuff, which is confusing because I want the system volume to be the same 'cause I still want to play music, and I don't want XMPlay to be paused 'cause then it doesn't write to disk, but I do want it to amplify times 0.

And what does Amplification do, anyway?  Since I have a final on Signals and Systems tomorrow, it'd help if someone could explain this in terms of DTFT and H(w) and h(w) etc.  

~Olego~

[Torkell]

I'm holding off on suggesting any optional interface variables before %prog_root%\xmplay.ini is fully implemented.

Have you voted at the poll yet? I dredged it back up from page 6.

BoggyB, didn't you say you were going to make it work with the color changing as well? *forgets exactly what the discussion was about all those ages ago*

I've forgotten as well. Let me see if I can find it...
I think this is what you meant. Here's the original request by Ralesk:

Ian: can we have a feature in 2.7 that windows' system colours get used in this skin?  I mean, I use something brown insyead of the silver, it could be polled from windows and xmplay would re-colour the skin accordingly ^^

--
Ralesk the maximalist

And my reply:

Here's how you could make it work: add a config option to "enable windows colours" either in the skinning kit or XMPlay itself (another one for the INI file, which does exist ("xmplay.ini")and is currently used by plugins, I believe), and either in the mask or the actual skin (depending whether this is a skinner or user option) have a palette index (e.g. 1=highlight, 2=shadow, 3=gradient start, 4=gradient, 5=gradient end, 6=window background, etc) and just grab the colours from windows (there's a couple of standard API functions to do just that).

And Ian's reply:

Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't see this working - for example, how would these special indexes be used within buttons/etc... it'd also be a lot of extra work for the skinner (and me).

Basically, I don't see anyway this sort of thing will be implemented. Because even if it is possible, it won't be simple, and will no doubt result in a degree of bloatage for a feature that is not really required.

The simplest thing is to ask RD for the files, and colour them in

Well, actually, I'm personally after some of the tracks that Digitally Imported occasionally plays.  I'm happy with just letting XMPlay write it to disk and sit in the systray, but I want a second copy of XMPlay play the music I want listen to at the spur of the moment...  And that's where Amplification comes in handy.  Before, I set it to 0 and heard no sound whatsoever, which was good.  Now, I set it to 0 and I hear stuff, which is confusing because I want the system volume to be the same 'cause I still want to play music, and I don't want XMPlay to be paused 'cause then it doesn't write to disk, but I do want it to amplify times 0.

How about pausing the copy playing the sound, not the one recording?

And what does Amplification do, anyway?  Since I have a final on Signals and Systems tomorrow, it'd help if someone could explain this in terms of DTFT and H(w) and h(w) etc.  

DTFT? H(w)? h(w)? Anyone know what they mean?

[Ian @ un4seen]

A friend of mine still wants DSP support...
And he's willing to code the plugins himself, even...

We'll have to talk ... If there's enough interest in creating DSP plugins, support will be added.

How come I hear sound when amplification is 0?  Isn't it there to mute XMPlay while letting everything else run unmuted?

As Boggy says, it's there to allow you to maximise the dynamic range and avoid clipping... to mute, put the volume slider to 0

The reason you hear sound at amp level 0 is that it uses a logarithmic scale (MODs always did, and now streams do too in 2.7). This means that the relative level change is constant between each step all along the slider, which is good for auto-amp.

Also, xmplay does not play concatenated ogg files (i.e. ogg files that consist of multiple other ogg files merged together by simply using the copy command.) It only plays the first embedded file.

XMPlay does support chained OGGs when streaming (eg. internet radio), but as you say, not in local files. The reason being that it's a bit fiddly (if you want to be able to seek across all the chained OGGs), and I figured hardly anyone would be using them anyway - so I didn't bother

I'll look into it for 2.8 (or maybe 2.7a if there are enough good little suggestions)... do you know anywhere to download examples of chained OGG files? Sure, it's simple to make my own, but I'd also like to see evidence that they are in general use

[Guan]

If Lite and Full version of XMPlay is hard to make then there are more ways to make XMPlay Lite.
For example if there are 2 separate programs one program is XMPlayer itselfe and the playlist, the second program could be a information window of the current playing media including encoder info and they are linked together when you hit the info button or another button in XMPlayer the information window starts.
Hard to explain for me in english but i hope all anderstand what i mean  

[Tsorovan]

Not to piss on anyone, but I don't really see the point in adding such complexity as codec analyzer into a player. Basically, checking what codec has been used will only happen once, or at maximum, a couple of times. If you need to know it more often than that, well then you should mark your files. I always add codec + bitrate to the album dirs in my MP3 "collection".

Of course, this is Ian's decision, I just like to discuss things.

[sergeymen]

do you know anywhere to download examples of chained OGG files? Sure, it's simple to make my own, but I'd also like to see evidence that they are in general use

I have not come across any chained oggs online or on peer to peer networks, but questions about such files have come up on the ogg vorbis users list multiple times. But, then, there are not that many ogg files on the net period. I still think that adding support for chained files is necessary.

I don't really see the point in adding such complexity as codec analyzer into a player.

I agree. I think I have come accross standalone programs that do codec detections. This will only slow the player down.

[Brightguy]

Finally, is someone willing to create a WinAmp-styled skin?  I'd start messing around, but I don't have the time, ATM.

I briefly started one when you first asked, but I've been pretty busy since then.  (If you had of asked a month or two earlier I probably could have found the time...)  Anyway, I'll see what I can do in the upcoming months.  It will never be perfect, of course.  (For example currently the position slider would have to be the same of the regular sliders.)

[Pike84]

I think I have come accross standalone programs that do codec detections.

Would you happen to know of any right now? I'd be quite interested .

[Tsorovan]

As I said in a previous post, EncSpot. It's the best I've found.

[Olego]

BobbyB:

DTFT? H(w)? h(w)? Anyone know what they mean?

H(w) is either the Fourier transform of the function h(w) or the frequency response of a system, where h(w) is the impulse response.

Ian:

... to mute, put the volume slider to 0

But then it will mute all sounds in the system.  Here's my suggestion: if amp is 0 then output no sound.  Else, have it be logarithmic.  OR make a right-click menu to mute the sound of XMPlay.  OR make a device in devices that's /dev/null, so that I can save the MP3 stream without converting it to wave or playing it.  Basically, I would like to request the option of outputting no sound from one instance of XMPlay and normal sound from another.

Tsorovan:

Not to piss on anyone, but I don't really see the point in adding such complexity as codec analyzer into a player.

I second that.  
<edit>There are too many <br>s incorporated into <quote>s. </edit>
~Olego~

[Pike84]

As I said in a previous post, EncSpot. It's the best I've found.

Oh, I managed to miss it first, but I've got it now and it seems pretty good. Thanks .

[Alexsource]

How about having multiple info windows at the same time?
I mean, for the sake of viewing the extended playlist and the visualisation at the same time
Or... an option to turn the small playlist into the visual when you change from the visual to another section in the info window (OMG! what a weird thing i wrote! )

[Torkell]

If Lite and Full version of XMPlay is hard to make then there are more ways to make XMPlay Lite. ...

Yes, but I still don't see why it's worth it for a download that's less than 250K. Maybe I'm not seeing things in proportion, having an ADSL connection, but I still don't see a valid reason for this, given that under good (about 50Kb/s) dialup conditions you can download XMPlay in under a minute. Even with a 28.8Kb/s connection, it'll still only take you about a minute. If this was Windows Media Player than it would be a different matter, but for a 40-second download what's the point?

H(w) is either the Fourier transform of the function h(w) or the frequency response of a system, where h(w) is the impulse response.

Still confused What's a Fourier transformation

But then it will mute all sounds in the system. ... Basically, I would like to request the option of outputting no sound from one instance of XMPlay and normal sound from another.

I thought the original thing was that you were recording a stream, in which case since XMPlay will output to only one device at a time (not counting MIDI) you would hear nothing from it. Instance 2, playing the stream thru speakers, can be paused/stopped without affecting instance 1. It could even be playing the file instance 1 is writing. If you have a 3rd copy, then you can just pause/stop the 2nd copy without affecting the original stream-writing copy.
Hope you get what I mean

[Pike84]

How about having multiple info windows at the same time?

This was actually suggested some time ago, before 2.7, and Ian said it would be tricky.. It's a nice idea tho . I'd also like to see multiple playlists added - don't know if that's real tricky too .

[Brightguy]

What's a Fourier transformation

I'm no expert at this stuff, but Fourier transformations are used in data compression, like MP3.  Fourier was a mathematician who proved that any finite function could be represented by adding various sine / cosine waves together.  Now, an MP3 encoder looks at small sections of the original sound, and uses a Fourier transformation algorithm to split the sound into various frequencies, then examines the frequencies and removes data that isn't completely important, or the human ear would have difficulty hearing.

At least that's what I understand...  I didn't go into much detail, and oversimplified things, like I said, I'm no expert.

[Ian @ un4seen]

Ian:
But then it will mute all sounds in the system.

That depends on the drivers... the volume slider will affect only the XMPlay output with some, and all sounds with others.

I think the best idea would be a DSP volume option (ie. XMPlay alters the sample data rather than asking the drivers to alter the volume). That'll enable those with all sounds affected to control just the XMPlay output. The down side is there'll be a delay (the buffer length) in volume/balance changes. I'll add the option in the next update.

[Tsorovan]

Wouldn't it be solvable by just using a preamp stage, and let the volume steer that? Or will that maybe futz with the dynamic range...

[Ian @ un4seen]

That's basically what I said ... XMPlay would modify the sample data, rather than asking the drivers to modify the output level.

[Tsorovan]

Oh yeah. Goddamnit, I'm pretty daft, am I not? :|

Here's a monster post. I know no one will agree with my suggestions but at least I tried, eh?


UI
——————————
— M i s c e l l a n e o u  s —
 • Option to remove the taskbar entry on mini-on-top mode. Oh, and no tray icon either.
   A switch would suffice.
— P l a y l i s t —
 • Optional track numbering. [on|off]
      Maybe settable in skinconfig.txt? Or not.
 • Optional file format column. [on|off]
      Actually, this setting and the one above would probably work to have controlled with hotkeys.
      They're "hardcore" enough for it.
 • Optional bare filenames title formatting. I don't want to see any ID3 tags in the title display thanks.
 • Make track length right-adjusted, not centered.
      (My pet peeve.)
— S k i n n i n g / M i s c . —
 • Optional, alternate sliders. Fillable bar, working sort of like the level meter. Var in skinconfig.txt.
      Would do wonders for smallish skins (especially
      mine, of which I am the only user. Damn. :\ ).
 • Option [skinconfig.txt] for turning off flashing time display when paused.
      The play button already does that, and the polyrhythmic anti-synergistic behaviour with both
      flashing is a tad obtrusive in my opinion.
 • Option [skinconfig.txt] for turning off the tenths of seconds time display.
      I still think this is warranted as it can lower the amount of UI updates by ten times (if you're
      not showing any visualizations).
      I don't see the point in having the tenths displayed at all, to me they are just annoying.

ENGINE
——————————
 • Can't think of anything except 24/44.1 and 24/48 kHz support.
 • Oh, gapless playback. As the latest LAME codecs are the only ones that can make true gapless
   MP3s (and I guess OGG supports gapless mode),
   a pre-buffer option like nullsoft's gapless output would be nice.

————————————————————————————————————————————v

Something for a later major version:

Simple, quick, powerful media library a la STP (Simple Tray Player);

[Options:editlist control]
Directories to Add
[Options:checkbox control]
Sort by Letter

When you right-click the tray icon or maybe a button in the UI (I prefer a tray icon for it + a global hotkey for bringing up the menu) you get a list with the directories that are the direct subdirectories to the ones you entered in [Options:editlist]. The list would contain as many entries as possible, but maybe not covering the whole screen. It would of course have a ">" and "<" scroller if the dirs do not fit on one screen. When you select a directory it adds all the files contained therein to the playlist. Ctrl (or Alt) + click would replace the playlist with the directory's files (think: album) and start playing immediately. Shift + click would do the adding, but wouldn't hide the menu and instead let you add more directories. A recurse subdirectories option could maybe be useful too.



[I purposefully made it small for bandwidth reasons. It would of course take up as much vertical space as possible, but maybe on the horizontal plane, it could be limited, and just chop off the end of the dir and replace it with "..." or somesuch]

The Sort by Letter option would make virtual "directories" containing the first letter in the directory name, for a cascading menu like this:



I think this would rock. Wouldn't be as nice for those not having a well-organised collection though, I guess.

Oh, and to reiterate, the directories in the [Options:editlist control] shouldn't be visible on the menu at all, just as if their subdirs were in fact located in the same parent dir. If you have two identically named dirs in different parent dirs, well...that's your problem :) Maybe the malignant menu entry could be shown with a "*" in front of it or something.

Oh and yes, I'm weird for having the taskbar positioned vertically, I hear that a lot. Thing is, no one's ever made a good, functional, slim GUI to an OS. And don't bring up Gnome or KDE or something because they are even worse IMO.

[Ralesk]

Yes, but I still don't see why it's worth it for a download that's less than 250K. Maybe I'm not seeing things in proportion, having an ADSL connection, but I still don't see a valid reason for this, given that under good (about 50Kb/s) dialup conditions you can download XMPlay in under a minute. Even with a 28.8Kb/s connection, it'll still only take you about a minute. If this was Windows Media Player than it would be a different matter, but for a 40-second download what's the point?

The point is not the size, but more like the features.  Some stuff can confuse some people I guess
Anyway, in Miranda Instant Messenger, you have a checkbox in the Options that makes the settings for advanced users show up.  Which is IMHO a very nice idea.

[Torkell]

Here's a monster post. I know no one will agree with my suggestions but at least I tried, eh?

I'm agreeing with some, and doing a monster reply!

UI
— M i s c e l l a n e o u  s —
 • Option to remove the taskbar entry on mini-on-top mode. Oh, and no tray icon either.

Yes to taskbar icon removal, no to tray icon. I think that there should only be a tray icon.

— P l a y l i s t —
 • Optional track numbering. [on|off]
      Maybe settable in skinconfig.txt? Or not.

Or in the elusive xmplay.ini

 • Optional file format column. [on|off]
      Actually, this setting and the one above would probably work to have controlled with hotkeys.

Again, one for the INI file.

 • Optional bare filenames title formatting. I don't want to see any ID3 tags in the title display thanks.

Try in the general window or toggling the playlist display to see the filename. I think ID3 tags aren't too bad an idea, if they are properly entered.

 • Make track length right-adjusted, not centered.
      (My pet peeve.)

Best would be centered on the ":"

— S k i n n i n g / M i s c . —
 • Optional, alternate sliders. Fillable bar, working sort of like the level meter. Var in skinconfig.txt.
      Would do wonders for smallish skins (especially
      mine, of which I am the only user. Damn. :\ ).

Don't see much point in alternate sliders (as they can be different sizes). Fillable bars would be nice, and are done by WMP. Upload your skin and others may use it.

 • Option [skinconfig.txt] for turning off flashing time display when paused.
      The play button already does that, and the polyrhythmic anti-synergistic behaviour with both
      flashing is a tad obtrusive in my opinion.

Should be INI rather than skinconfig.

 • Option [skinconfig.txt] for turning off the tenths of seconds time display.
      I still think this is warranted as it can lower the amount of UI updates by ten times (if you're
      not showing any visualizations).
      I don't see the point in having the tenths displayed at all, to me they are just annoying.

The UI actually runs at 20fps, to cope with page/frame displays. The option should also be in the INI file.

ENGINE
 • Can't think of anything except 24/44.1 and 24/48 kHz support.

Really it should support any size/rate combination supported by the sound card.

 • Oh, gapless playback. As the latest LAME codecs are the only ones that can make true gapless
   MP3s (and I guess OGG supports gapless mode),
   a pre-buffer option like nullsoft's gapless output would be nice.

Have no views on this, as I'm not entirely sure what it is.

Something for a later major version:

Simple, quick, powerful media library a la STP (Simple Tray Player) ...

Personally I would like the directory structure to be shown, as it usually quite logical (e.g. by artist/album/group). Get it added to the playlist poll.

Oh and yes, I'm weird for having the taskbar positioned vertically, I hear that a lot. Thing is, no one's ever made a good, functional, slim GUI to an OS. And don't bring up Gnome or KDE or something because they are even worse IMO.

I try that ocassionally (sp?) with Win2k. My current layout is autohiding on the bottom of the left screen (multiple monitors rock), with two rows of quick icons/address bar/programs. I might try a vertical layout, on the left of my left screen (right monitor uses lower resolution and has some display problems, right side of left would just be annoying as it't the divider between the screens). The monitor layout is (physical & virtual):

/------------\
|            +--------\
|  1152x864  |  800x  |
|            |  600   |
\------------+--------/

And as for GUI, one of my "smart idea that I will do sometime this century"-type projects is an OpenGL-based fully-featured 3D file browser with Windows shell extension support, custom plug-in system and backwards compatability (so it will work with all fancy Windows Explorer stuff).

<edit>I forgot the all-important / in my <quote></quote> tags!</edit>

[Tsorovan]

Thanks for you input. You misunderstood some things though. Maybe my fault.

Yes to taskbar icon removal, no to tray icon. I think that there should only be a tray icon.

Wasn't clear; meant optional. You who want a tray icon can have it, I don't want either (unless the media browser thing get implemented) as I'm using mini-on-top and hence the rest is worthless.

[All instances of "INI instead of skinconfig"]

As there's no such thing yet, I chose what's already there. I think some things should be left to skinconfig.txt though, as for example removing the tenths display will make it possible to make that field smaller, but if you turn it on it'll be shit. But generally yes, an ini option would be better for those things.

Try in the general window or toggling the playlist display to see the filename. I think ID3 tags aren't too bad an idea, if they are properly entered.

Notice the word "bare" in "bare filenames". I.e. no dirs.

Best would be centered on the ":"

I guess it'd work.

Don't see much point in alternate sliders (as they can be different sizes). Fillable bars would be nice, and are done by WMP. Upload your skin and others may use it.

Alternate sliders/fillable bars is the same thing. Fillable bars instead of the present sliders. The skin is there for people to use, but I'm the only one who likes small, unobtrusive mini-on-top things it seems. I want to see what I'm playing. No biggie. I made it for myself.

Really it should support any size/rate combination supported by the sound card.

Of course. I agree.

--------

And as for GUI, one of my "smart idea that I will do sometime this century"-type projects is an OpenGL-based fully-featured 3D file browser with Windows shell extension support, custom plug-in system and backwards compatability (so it will work with all fancy Windows Explorer stuff).

Good luck with that one! BTW, Longhorn and its spawn will be DirectX-accelerated with lots of crappy effects shit. I don't want stuff like that. If there was a way to easily and quickly toggle an OSD to show what programs are running and then lithely switch between them (alt+tab doesn't cut it), I wouldn't have any bars at all anywhere. I already did away with using the mouse to start programs a long time ago by making custom, tersely named shortcuts and starting them through Win+R. It works better than anything else yet, but it's still bad. Oh well.

[Tsorovan]

Oh and the directory structure in the STP-alike thing WOULD be shown, it's just that I don't make subdirs for artists, that works really shittily and I recommend everyone stopping doing that. It's really more time-consuming, and especially bad if you have say,

John Zorn · Filmworks VII - Cynical Hysterie Hour (1997) [160Xn]
John Zorn, Mike Patton, Ikue Mori · Hemophiliac (2002) [hVBRL]
John Zorn's Chamber Music · Live at the Barbican (1999) [192F]

as I have. Are you going to make one dir for John Zorn, or separate dirs for all 3? No good solution. But you're all free to do it I guess. I found it to be deplorable.
Aaanyway, that's moot because what I suggested would show all subdirs (just not the mounting points).

Oh, and 3D browsers/file managers have been made for a long time, checked any of them out? Myself, I see no point in doing it in 3D. Unnecessary speed impacts, hampered usability, resource hogging...I could go on. No benefits. But that's me and I'm a fruit.

[Zarggg]

Oh and the directory structure in the STP-alike thing WOULD be shown, it's just that I don't make subdirs for artists, that works really shittily and I recommend everyone stopping doing that.

The reason I do that is because I refuse to put albums in filenames and I have some files that are remakes, alternate versions, and rereleases of the same songs, all from the same artist.  The track titles are taken directly from the album cover; discriptive works such as [live] do not exist on my files, unless it is marked as such on the alubm cover.

[Tsorovan]

Whatever works for you is good I guess. Couldn't really understand your reasoning though, because I don't put album names in filenames either :) Anyway, this whole discussion is sort of stupid as my suggestion doesn't impair other people much (that I know of). It could be cool to (with some work) make a customizable parser, and it wouldn't need to be advanced. Just a simple input filter like this:

Legend:
:A: artist
:L: album
:Y: year of release
:C1: comment no. 1
:C2: comment no. 2
:C3: comment no. 3

This is how mine would look:
:A: - :L: (:Y:) [:C1:]\

This is how some others' might look:
:A:\:L: (:C1:, :C2:)\
:A: - :L:

...and you get the general idea.

[I chose :var: just for some weird reason, could be %var too I guess...not important]

This would extract the variables to use in your popup menu later, which also could be modifiable with this same system.

Pretty straightforward and easy. I don't think it would be that hard to code this at all, the question is: does people want it, or something similar? To get it to work with ID3 tags would add some complexity, and it would probably need to be precomputed as scanning through thousands of files for ID3 tags is way slower than just parsing the dir structure. Of course, maybe the non-ID3 way should be precomputed also or at least cached. Probably. I'm not much of a programmer really.

[Olego]

Still confused What's a Fourier transformation

As Brightguy says, Fourier once stated that every signal can be represented using an infinite sum of cosines.  Of course, it'll never be exact due to Gibbs' phenomenon, but assume that is you do it for a very long time, it'll look almost like an original signal.  So now, instead of dealing with raw PCM data, you have what's called an FFT Data: a double array of floating points.  It is because the equation is like this:

Signal(t) = Sum A * cos (i * w₀ * t + Angle).  Doesn't really make much sense unless you spend a lot of time with it, but basically if you don't care about the quality, this is used to sort signals by frequency, when working on sound data, whether it be for compression on anything else.

I thought the original thing was that you were recording a stream, in which case since XMPlay will output to only one device at a time (not counting MIDI) you would hear nothing from it. Instance 2, playing the stream thru speakers, can be paused/stopped without affecting instance 1. It could even be playing the file instance 1 is writing. If you have a 3rd copy, then you can just pause/stop the 2nd copy without affecting the original stream-writing copy.
Hope you get what I mean

Yea, I know what you mean; but it is the first one that I want to mute without pausing it.  Ian's DSP solution will fix that.

I'll add the option in the next update.

Yay!  But please have it be an option, 'cause I want to switch between DSP volume processing and hardware volume processing.  I'm picky!

~Olego~

[Pike84]

Tsorovan:

I personally disapprove of any kind of media library. I don't know if it would be much of bloating, but I think it's just unnecessary. You can have a file explorer (the one with the directory tree) open, and add directories and files straight to the playlist from there, simple as that. Explorer is enough of a media library, for me at least. The easiness of this, of course, depends on, in how good order your music is laid on your hd.

Thus, I really don't see what you need a media library for. I think it would only make things more complicated for me . It wouldn't matter, of course,  if you didn't have to use it, and it didn't add much to the filesize of XMPlay, but I'm afraid it could go rather complicated, all in all .

I don't know everything about media libraries, so perhaps you should tell me, why you think XMPlay should have one .

[Tsorovan]

Well, it's not really a library per se, just a hook into the file system. The ease of use that it would add is if you have, like me, hundreds of GBs of MP3s divided up on several hard drives. "Splicing" these behemoth MP3 dirs into a virtual one that is easily accessed through the player seems, to me, quite useful.

Dragging and dropping/having to right-click and whatnot is a lot more tedious, but I'm quite anal when it comes to simplicity/as few keystrokes as possible, so bear with me.

I can live with XMPlay not having something like this, just wanted to hear if I was the only who found something like this nice. Sometimes, in weak moments, I find myself harbouring some badly-founded hope for general computer users opening their eyes to lean, quick, simple ways to operate programs, but alas...I think I'm insane. Just look at all internet browsers for example...they all suck. Sure, they suck in different ways, but in the end they still suck.

Oh well...I've been rambling on and on for too long now...
It wouldn't be impossible to make a stand-alone program that does this through DDE calls really. Maybe I should install VS .NET and try to reacquaint myself with C++. Was quite a while ago I programmed; back in those glorious DOS days :\

You can have a file explorer (the one with the directory tree) open, and add directories and files straight to the playlist from there, simple as that.

BTW, I can't make that go uncontested! *slaps Kynes with his glove*
Going by that logic, well...this'll be fun :D

"You can have only buttons and press them instead of having hotkeys, simple as that."
"You can have xmplay running as a console application, simple as that."
"You don't need a playlist, you can add song by song manually, simple as that."
"You can have xmplay running on a computer in another room and a special foot controller which transmits commands over shortwave radio as morse code, thus controlling the xmplay instance, simple as that."

Okay, maybe I went overboard a bit there... :D
The gist of it is: improvements are good. Now, if it's worth spending time on adding those improvements...that's another question altogether.

Oh, and please tell me if I should shut up. I know I can be quite annoying at times. I won't mind.

[Olego]

I think I'm insane. Just look at all internet browsers for example...they all suck. Sure, they suck in different ways, but in the end they still suck.

Just had a conversation with a friend today about how either of us launches IE.  We both agreed that on some computers we do Winkey+R, type iexplore, and press Enter.  Double-click is rare, nowadays.  Good thing I have it in my quick launch!  To open the C:\ drive, I do Winkey+R, \, <Enter>.  Seriously, I abuse the Winkey as much as I can.  Instead of Right Click, on my laptop (yes, everyone, Olego owns a LAPTOP!  W00P!  ) I use Shift+F10.  So you're not the only one who's insane.

And browsers do suck major arse!  Opera has mouse gestures which are just about the coolest things ever, but otherwise, it sucks.  IE sucks but it's supported everywhere.  Mozilla would be much better if we didn't have to make 2 version of the same JavaScript code to run on both Mozilla and IE.  (I don't know if there've been any changes recently.)  I like it, but sometimes it can be a pain in the arse.

But I have found something better than all three: links / lynx.  Yes, a text-only web browser that kicks all others in the shins!    He he.

~Olego~

[Ian @ un4seen]

 • Option to remove the taskbar entry on mini-on-top mode. Oh, and no tray icon either.
   A switch would suffice.

I was considering this for 2.7, but didn't get round to it (it's not a matter of simply asking Windows not to show the taskbar entry)... it may well be done for 2.8

 • Optional bare filenames title formatting. I don't want to see any ID3 tags in the title display thanks.

You could set the "title formatting" to nothing - the filename will then be used (except for MODs, as title formatting doesn't affect them).

 • Option [skinconfig.txt] for turning off the tenths of seconds time display.
      I still think this is warranted as it can lower the amount of UI updates by ten times (if you're
      not showing any visualizations).

Don't forget the level indicator needs updating too

 • Can't think of anything except 24/44.1 and 24/48 kHz support.

They are supported... did your change in drivers not fix that problem for you?


I'll have to look over your main/big suggestion a few times

[Pike84]

BTW, I can't make that go uncontested! *slaps Kynes with his glove*
Going by that logic, well...this'll be fun

"You can have only buttons and press them instead of having hotkeys, simple as that."
"You can have xmplay running as a console application, simple as that."
"You don't need a playlist, you can add song by song manually, simple as that."
"You can have xmplay running on a computer in another room and a special foot controller which transmits commands over shortwave radio as morse code, thus controlling the xmplay instance, simple as that."

You made your point there ok . My point however, was that it's just as easy to just use explorer, drag'n'dropping the files. I know nothing about music archives of hundreds of gigs - maybe it would be a helpful addition to someone like you, but you must admit that not many people have even, say, over 50 gigs of music on their machines.

[Tsorovan]

You could set the "title formatting" to nothing - the filename will then be used (except for MODs, as title formatting doesn't affect them).

Ooh, didn't think of checking that. Smart one.

Don't forget the level indicator needs updating too :)

Yep. But how about if your skin doesn't have one? Or if it does, but not visible in say, mini-mode? :)

They are supported... did your change in drivers not fix that problem for you?

Nope. I get a speaker element-obliterating all frequency-encompassing noise. Hrmm. Weird. I think it has something to do with XMPlay though as all other programs (about 10-15 — for example Winamp (strange, I thought I had deleted it), Wavelab & SoundForge) play those same files just fine, either through ASIO/GSIF or the Windows API.

I'll have to look over your main/big suggestion a few times :D

No rush :D Thanks for putting up with my retardation.

[Lee_dC]

call me an idiot if this is already possible and ive just not realised how to do it, but i find it really annoying how if i try play a mp3 or wav, it still goes thru the eq+reverb+AAR stuff that the modules do. i dont need those things on wav or mp3, so it would be great if there was a screen where you could select which parts of the output stage to apply to each filetype. or maybe different eq&reverb settings per filetype? so for mp3 and wav id just turn all that stuff off, then if i put mp3/wav/mod/xm all in the same playlist, i wont have to keep switching the eq/reverb and stuff off when it hits the wav/mp3 files. you could use the "save settings per file" thing i think, but that still means setting it up for every mp3/wav doesnt it? as it is, i only use xmplay for playing modules because of this. btw, the sinc interpolation sounds really great in v2.7!!! and 24/32bit output works now for me. even old MODs sound amazing with a bit of EQ+reverb

[Pike84]

Well, I'm not calling you an idiot - I don't think there are default settings per filetype yet. Could make a useful addition, yup .

[Ian @ un4seen]

Nope. I get a speaker element-obliterating all frequency-encompassing noise.

Is this with everything you try to play at 24-bit (eg. MP3/OGG/MOD), or just some particular 24-bit WAV files? If it's everything, what happens if you set the output to 32-bit instead? If it's just 24-bit WAV files, please upload one to look at

or maybe different eq&reverb settings per filetype?

I'll look into it. In the meantime, the EQ (Q) and Reverb (V) shortcuts may be of some use

[Torkell]

I'll stay out of this one now, except for a couple of things:

One, xmplay.ini does exist, it is on my system as E:\Data\Programs\Un4seen\XMPlay\xmplay.ini, I can upload it, a screenshot of the file tree, a scanned printout of the contents of it, anything to prove that it does exist. It contains plugin settings, and could easily be expanded for other, advanced settings.

Two, I use IE which I either start by Win->P->I[->Enter], or by typing the adress in the address bar on my desktop (did you know you could have it there) and whacking return.

Three, the reason you need two versions of JavaScript is because Mozilla does not support DHTML, an official W3C standard, which is fully supported (beyond the original specification) by Microsoft, and which Mozilla *should* be made to support.

[Tsorovan]

Is this with everything you try to play at 24-bit (eg. MP3/OGG/MOD), or just some particular 24-bit WAV files? If it's everything, what happens if you set the output to 32-bit instead? If it's just 24-bit WAV files, please upload one to look at :)

I've done some testing, and it seems it's only Cubase SX clips that behave like this, maybe they're using some weird header stuff that XMPlay doesn't like...I'll upload a bit from one (24-48_weirdness.wav).

[Ian @ un4seen]

It's sorted for the next release... it was actually being detected as an MPEG file, that's why it sounded a bit funny

[Tsorovan]

Smashing!

[Lee_dC]

it would be good if (for mods with looping), there was an extra option called "fade out loop" or something. then when the song reached the loop point (or after playing it once if you have "loop once" selected), it would start fading out the song, and when it reaches silence, the next song begins. that way, when you have a song that doesnt have a proper ending (ie. a looped mod), at least it will fade out nicely at the end instead of abruptly stopping at the loop point, then the next song bursting in. also would work the same for MODs with "multi-songs" in them.

:idea:also i had a crazy idea (it would be of more benefit to MOD than XM i think tho) where each instrument gets sent to a channel in a mixer, so you can add different amounts of EQ/reverb and maybe plugin effects too (VST?), also set the volume/panning etc.... like the mixer in cubase or whatever. and it would be cool if you could save it to a file once you have a good "mix", then other people could load your mix settings in for that song. so you could make an old MOD sound a lot better & modern & stuff   i think it would be a good balance between time spent on a mix and the noticeable improvement, as it wouldnt take long to set up a mix. it would have to save the settings for each MOD of course.

[Pike84]

That idea of fade-out for looped mods is nice - you got my support .

Dunno about that crazy idea, tho. Remixing mods could be nice, but I think it's just not something for a music player. Besides, it would probably be a rather large task to add something like that effectively, so that it would work and be of some real use. I think we should let XMPlay be just a player, and leave remixing and stuff for some other project.

[Jace]

About that crazy idea..
Sounds like you would be able to do that in any 'modern' tracker fairly easily, and save it as your own file.

[Zarggg]

Bad community! This was on the bottom of Page 2!

One thing I thought of... Would it be possible to include a randomizer for skins at startup (optional .INI/Registry entry, set to true or false)? -- This could really possibly be a 3.x feature; I'd love to see 3.x use an .INI config instead of a Registry config. Exceptions, of course, include file associations.

Also, could Ian or someone else with the ability make a standalone .SVP for the built-in Spectrum and 3-D Spectrum? I like the way those look, and would love to include those in my Rappa list.

[Pike84]

Hehe, perhaps people are too content with the current XMPlay?

I wouldn't worry about the numbering - that skin randomizer could as well be a 2.8 feature if you ask me. Besides, I'd be surprised if there was to be as big a change in XMPlay on 3.0, as there was on 2.0

[Zarggg]

I suppose. It's just that I hold personally that whole-number versions should be a major change/improvement over the prior.

[somekdi]

Actually, something that I really wanted is support for the creative controller, so add additional support to the hotkeys.

Instead of just using the keyboard to control, you may have other options like a remote controller or just for the hell of it, a joystick controller hotkey etc..

[velusip]

velusip: It's all very well making XMPlay uncrashable, but what if Windows self-destructs?

Let that be up to windows, what I mean is that XMPlay should not crash itself, and as my experience has it, XMPlay /has never crashed/... but plugins have, taking XMPlay with it...

Perhaps the plugins could spawn completely seperate processes and stream audio data back to XMPlay?

I just think that mean old plugins should not have a say in the general run of things.

[Pike84]

velusip: I agree, but it might not be so easy to prevent XMPlay crashing along with a sucky plugin. I'm not a programmer, so this is just an assumption, tho .

Now that a separate 'preferences' dialog is under way, it's easier to add new settings . So here's one minor suggestion: to be able to set the thread priority via the player.

[Pike84]

Here's another, very tiny, suggestion: when starting the player for the first time, make the info window be open by default, preferrably with the extended playlist panel on. People don't immediately fix their eys on the info window button, and then they wonder why the playlist window is so small..

[Pike84]

I thought it'd be appropriate to put these here too, for clarity:

- DSP-plugin support. This is not exactly a whole new suggestion - I remember it being mentioned earlier. But anyway, would it be very hard to implement? I've gotten the idea, that there are some very nice stuff available via these.

- Surround sound, for those with lots of speakers. Again I've no idea how hard it would be to add something like this, but since there are many good players around and the competition is tough, this could be one excellent way to stand out . Winamp has support for 4.1, so better make it at least 5.1 .

[velusip]

- Surround sound, for those with lots of speakers. Again I've no idea how hard it would be to add something like this, but since there are many good players around and the competition is tough, this could be one excellent way to stand out . Winamp has support for 4.1, so better make it at least 5.1 .

Yes! omg! I completely forgot about that. With the BASS system involved this should /definitely/ be implemented... 7.1 damnit! *It's about tyme I tried out that new Vivid/Energy H.E.S. of mine ;þ

And with H.E.S.'s involved, an internal DC offset filter is a /MUST/.

[k0.wax]

i wanna more "original" stereo panning///

[Ian @ un4seen]

Here's another, very tiny, suggestion: when starting the player for the first time, make the info window be open by default...

Done

- DSP-plugin support. This is not exactly a whole new suggestion - I remember it being mentioned earlier. But anyway, would it be very hard to implement? I've gotten the idea, that there are some very nice stuff available via these.

I mentioned previously that if there are people wanting to create DSP plugins for XMPlay, then I'd be willing to add a DSP plugin system... not much point otherwise

Maybe something for 3.0

- Surround sound, for those with lots of speakers. Again I've no idea how hard it would be to add something like this, but since there are many good players around and the competition is tough, this could be one excellent way to stand out . Winamp has support for 4.1, so better make it at least 5.1 .

4/5/7.1 support is planned... not necessarily for generating some surround sound effect, but more for file formats that have multi-channel capability - ie. WAV, OGG, WMA, and any Winamp plugins that may be capable of it.

[f_x]

I have have the same suggestion as for 2.7

http-proxy support would nice.

greetings
f_x

[Ian @ un4seen]

XMPlay uses Windows' proxy settings... if you've not already done so, try setting the proxy in Control Panel->Internet Properties->Connections.

[Rah'Dick]

I noticed that even BASS uses IE's proxy settings, which totally rules.

Oh, by the way... A Dolby ProLogic/II Plugin for Winamp:
http://classic.winamp.com/plugins/detail.jhtml?componentId=129453

I want DSP plugins

[Pike84]

Another small suggestion: sort list by directory structure.

[Zarggg]

I think "Sort by Filename" does that already. That was fixed in 2.7, IIRC.

Also, I'd like to bring this back to discussion:

Also, could Ian or someone else with the ability make a standalone .SVP for the built-in Spectrum and 3-D Spectrum? I like the way those look, and would love to include those in my Rappa list.

[Pike84]

Oh! So it seems :idea:. But then there isn't a 'sort by filename' without the dir structure .

[Irrational86]

Nvm...ignore me..

[Pike84]

Perhaps a very tiny suggestion could still make it to the 2.8? When starting to play a random song, the view would move to where the song is in the list. This would be especially useful in bigger lists.

[edit]Oh, I just came up with another little suggestion: In the playlist right-click menu, a new item, "clear queue".

[Irrational86]

Sorry for this wrong post again...i opened my mouth without knowing first..

[Zarggg]

Perhaps a very tiny suggestion could still make it to the 2.8? When starting to play a random song, the view would move to where the song is in the list. This would be especially useful in bigger lists.

Hitting Scroll Lock (should) produces this effect. It's in the manual, IIRC.

[Jace]

Scroll Lock does it for the small playlist, and I remember Ian saying that the big playlist is meant to be used as a playlist manager, and it would get a tad annoying if the list scrolled up and down when song changes just while you're moving a huge heap of files and so on. =)

A few things which have been mostly mentioned before, but little refresh can't hurt

- when encountering a dead file, pick another random song, not just stop playing on the dead file
- xmp should remember when the 'subfolders' is selected on the 'Add dir' window (have to check the box every time now, ecch )
- remember when the scroll lock has been on when xmplay closes, and switch it on when opening next time, if off? =)

I have few modules too which fail in a way or another in XMP (some crash, some just jam), but I can't apparently send any files from this comp.. =/
I'll be back on it when I can though.

[Pike84]

Yes, I meant the big playlist, and I only meant it for random songs. Perhaps we should have an option to choose, if the playlist moves? Anyway, the "clear queue" option would be useful, no matter what .

Jacer, there is a right-click menu in 'loop list' button, where you can choose if the playback stops on a dead track .

[Jace]

Hmm..

v Loop List
 ----------
v Auto advance
   Stop at end of Queue
   Unload final track

That's what I have.. I might be missing something or you have a betatesting version or similar

[Pike84]

Oh yes, I actually seem to have an early beta, 2.703. I have the same options, except I have "stop at dead track" included, so apparently it's already done .