Discussion/Debate about XMPlay

[Zarggg]

I am starting this thread because the 2.7 Suggestions thread has become more of a debate on what should or should not be put where in the program.  It is my hope that this thread will relieve the Suggestions thread of unneccesary quibble.

The topic presently at hand:  Should "minimized to tray" mode have an option in the Configuration Panel, or remain as a command-line switch.  Please keep discussion intellegent, without remarks about other members of this forum.

To start off, here is my opinion:

I think it should remain as a switch only, as MtT ("minimized to tray") can easily be set up with a Windows shortcut, and also can be accessed by right-clicking the "Minimize" button on the main window.  With the proper settings, one can leave XMPlay minimized, and simply open the appropriate files via Explorer.  Also, it can be set up to start MtT at Startup.

Roj's rebuttal to my statemens in the Suggestions thread were that non-power users should not have to worry about learning such methods.

While this argument is valid, I would like to reply that we do have a resident "support" dude:  Keltic Danor.  His work on the Support Site is excellent, and could create tutorials to help emulate the behavor Roj suggests.

Furthermore, it is my belief that XMPlay should remain as streamlined and non-bloated as possible, and adding extra features, that can already be performed with "creative" settings, would serve to undermine one of the original purposes of this media player, once it moved from only MOD-playing.  We want to create a better and smaller version of Winamp, not another Winamp.

[Olego]

My opinion about Mr. T, or actually MtT, is that it's a .ini file setting.  Everyone with a text editor will be able to change it; and people without a text editor tend to be the people who don't know where SysTray is.  

~Olego~

[Roj]

My view is that users should not have to resort to text editors to configure a piece of software in 2003.  This is not Windows 3.1 nor is it Unix and the concept of such a configuration method is pretty old and outdated.

A shortcut mod doesn't help those of us who use Explorer to play files - I for one NEVER start a player from a shortcut and I'm not alone.  The shortcut solution again goes back to the old mindset of starting a program to do something rather than just clicking on an object and having it function.  Yes, I could go into Folder Options / File Types (or the Registry) and modify the command to start the player when I by click on a given file type but that's just silly, especially since I would have to do it for every file type XMPlay supports.  I also would not wish to have the inconvenience of using a keystroke to minimize to the tray every time I used the player.

Regarding Winamp bloat:

CoolPlayer has a remarkably tiny binary with minimal memory and CPU requirements and the authors somehow still managed to find a way to make such functionality a panel configurable option.

But hey if you won't do it, you won't do it and that as they say is that.  That's not a show stopper for me.

No gapless OGG play - now THAT'S a show stopper.

[Ralesk]

No, text file editing is plusgood.  Better than having to go to the registry, anyhow.  Decent looking flags and stuff should be saven in edi(ta)ble text files.

HOWEVER, it is valid that Average Joe can't do anything without keeping hold of his mouse.

BUT I wouldn't be concerned about Average Joe that much, since most people -- yet -- who know this player, have something to do with trackers OR at least mod songs (true, not all!), therefore they're probably not like Average Joe who wouldn't want to touch the keyboard except when he is having chattiness.

I support, in the long run, a nice separate config window, with a good structure so that it's not cluttered or illogical.

--

I for one, never open xmplay from a song, but from a link, and have a 500 sized playlist that I don't modify too often.  Thus my only problem might be the autoplay upon run, but I don't care about it, since the prog loads for ages anyway (music files cluttered all over the place), so pressing an enter or not, is not a difference.

--

Ogg, yes, I want gaplessism.

[Roj]

I agree about using an INI file - both Winamp and CoolPlayer still use one.

"BUT I wouldn't be concerned about Average Joe that much, since most people -- yet -- who know this player, have something to do with trackers OR at least mod songs (true, not all!), therefore they're probably not like Average Joe who wouldn't want to touch the keyboard except when he is having chattiness."

I can and will cure that if this player pans out to the potential I think it can - the word will be spread starting with places like BetaNews.

"I support, in the long run, a nice separate config window, with a good structure so that it's not cluttered or illogical."

Agreed.

"I for one, never open xmplay from a song, but from a link, and have a 500 sized playlist that I don't modify too often."

Heheheh...

I typically launch mine using Explorer to test my downloads before moving the ones I want to currently listen to off to my standing library of three 20GB drives across my network (the acceptable ones - usually 192bit or higher and no Xing encodes welcome - all get archived to CD for later use and rotated with some regularity since music runs on this network as long as there are people in the house).  Starting files from Explorer comes in really handy for previewing new files (I typically pull down at a rate of some 200-300Mb a day).

Different uses, different needs...

"Ogg, yes, I want gaplessism. "

Darn straight!

By the way, I really love your dragon.

[Zarggg]

Actually, XMPlay presently registers file association under one entry, like Winamp.  I've suggested doing them separately, but currently you would only need to change a single command.

[Roj]

I gotta check this out and test it - thanks.

BUT - that doesn't let y'all off the hook.

[Pike84]

I agree with Roj - there should be enough options to satisfy everyone's needs, if it doesn't require bloating the player, which isn't the case here. Clutter the config panel? Nah, an extra button here or there doesn't have to clutter a thing .

"Hrrm, option to keep using the little tray icon full time. ie Not just when minimised. Taskbar tabs are so ugly."

Agreed.

By the way, why do these 'post', 'preview' and 'reset form' buttons stop functioning, when I preview my post and then go back? You have to go back to the actual forum page, and press reply again to make them work.

[Olego]

By the way, why do these 'post', 'preview' and 'reset form' buttons stop functioning, when I preview my post and then go back? You have to go back to the actual forum page, and press reply again to make them work.

What browser are you using?  It doesn't do that for IE; it does do that for Opera though...  Dunno about Mozilla.

~Olego~

[Ralesk]

It works fine here in Moz.

They get disabled OnClick, so that you can't click them twice and send thus double posts.
However, most browsers don't save this state when you go back --- Opera seems to go back remembering the buttons being disabled by the JavaScript.

Roj, thanks.  It was made by Virulent; http://virulent.deviantart.com/

[Brightguy]

I think it should remain as a switch only, as MtT ("minimized to tray") can easily be set up with a Windows shortcut, and also can be accessed by right-clicking the "Minimize" button on the main window.  With the proper settings, one can leave XMPlay minimized, and simply open the appropriate files via Explorer.  Also, it can be set up to start MtT at Startup.

I agree with Alpha, I don't think there's any need to add extra support for MtT.  Even if you added only one extra button for each new small feature, pretty soon things are going to start to get cluttered.

That's not saying I don't support the addition of new features and extra buttons, just not for something as small as this.  Olego is right when he says this seems more like an .ini setting.

[Roj]

"Actually, XMPlay presently registers file association under one entry, like Winamp.  I've suggested doing them separately, but currently you would only need to change a single command."

I tried it- it still doesn't deliver the desired result, namely starting in the System Tray, running in the Tray, minimizing to the Tray by default without a special keystroke or any extra effort and in general never knowing a personal existance outside the Tray from start to exit.  That's what I'm aiming for.

[Pike84]

What browser are you using?  It doesn't do that for IE; it does do that for Opera though...  Dunno about Mozilla.

~Olego~

Yeah, I'm using Opera 7 and I think this is a great browser . But it isn't a big deal, I can live with it.

[Swithin]

It's really not too hard to figure out - but then, I'm going to be a big proponent of using an STP-like menu-system from the systray, so maybe parading the option out in the open would further my cause. Err, yeah, I'm all for a big red button in the middle of everything for MtT, and a MtT-on-startup option right next to it.

Hey, I love STP and XMPlay. Combining the two would create the coolest player around, SysTrayXMPlayer, or STXMP (pronounce it STAMP or STOMP, just not Stuhxuhmp. It's cooler that way, makes the X in the middle more stylistic, and makes me seem less an idiot.) All I really need taking space on my screen is the pattern display once in a while, and others who think like me might be gratified to immediately see the MtT option upon giving XMPlay the 'once over'.

At the very least, XMPlay could use more than > = >> << 'random' and 'restore' from the systray, at least the option to open files without having to restore the player (kinda ruins the point of minimizing it in the first place if it's going to be a hassle)...

[Torkell]

I don't mean to sound annoying, but you could just do the following:

double-click on file
press shift+n
enjoy

If I have the time I'll write a macro program to do that (just need to do some poking around with Spy++ to find out what window classes are used).

[Torkell]

Just another thought: if I do manage to make that program then maybe I'll expand it into a sort of batch control for XMPlay (automate commands etc.)

[Roj]

That's fine if you like hotkeys or want to use a macro program - I personally prefer neither.

Why is this an issue?  There appears to be no really good reasoning of why not to do this.  After all, the competition does it and at least one of them has an even leaner distro than XMPlay (and uses INI files into the bargain - not the Registry).

[Torkell]

It's not going to be what you think - it'll be command-line driven and intended as a replacement for XMPlay (in the file type definition) or to have files'dropped' on shortcuts.

[Roj]

Could you please explain further?  I'm not following...

[Torkell]

Example:
You create a shortcut to my program with the name of a macro file as the first parameter. It gets the list of files dropped and does whatever you want XMPlay to do with them (maybe something really complicated like add to a playlist, save the playlist, start playing from the first file, cycle through every 15 seconds (to play the intro only) and minimize to the tray).
Or you set up windows to open files with this program ,which will play them and minimize XMPlay to the tray.

[Roj]

I don't think we're heading in the same direction.  I want Winamp and CoolPlayer-style Explorer shell integration where I can right click on a file or directory and enqueue it to XMPlay's playlist or start playing it (which means two Context Menu entries) and ALWAYS have XMPlay running in the System Tray.  Drag 'N' Drop never enters this scenario.  Neither do shortcuts - they are irrelevant since it's function is effectively integrated into Explorer. If I click on the icon in the Tray, it should appear on my desktop and if I minimize it, it should go back to the Tray.  In other words, it should stay out of my way at all times, residing in the Tray unless otherwise told to do so.

I don't think a macro program can do this.  A user-configurable option to start and run in the System Tray (NOT exercised by anything so arcane as a manual entry in a configuration file) can.

Basically what I'm saying is that the program has to leave the nineties operational mindset behind.

[picky]

Before XMPlay, I was using Winamp, with the fxsound.com DFX plugin. I even tried the izotope.com - Ozone plugin.
XMPlay takes care of the most important auto volume issue.
I also like to boost the bass and brighten the top. Just as I suggested on another board, I do not listen always with the same loudness, so I need to "convert" it, meaning boosting the lows and highs. The ear sensitivity changes differently at different frequencies when the sound volume (loudness) changes. That is why I am begging for another EQ band at the bottom. 170 Hz is NOT bass, 63 Hz is, but not near to the bottom. The best would be a "loudness converter" where I would pick an input and output loudness and the appropriate equalization curve would be dialed-in for me. It calls for adjusting frequencies below 20Hz. To get my wishes, I be happy to accept one more page in the setup/options panel. Maybe showing some equalization curves graphically? As long as most of the options are useful for me, or can be hidden, adding more pages do not bother me.
By the way, Ozone has an option to change polarity of a channel (not switch L<->R). What do other people do when they have an MP3 with one channel polarity inverted? I do not want to reencode it.

[Torkell]

Roj: ahhhhhhhhhhh... I see what you mean now
No, my macro program won't be able to do anything like that. What needs to be done is for Ian to program in context menu support, which, because it's OLE, is not fun to do in C++ (at least in VB you don't have to do AddRef, Release, QueryInterface and mess around with tons of pointers).

Picky: I see what you mean as well
You want two things: what's basically a "bass boost" button, and the ability to flip the plus/minus sign on the values for one channel of an MP3 (e.g. if it's a sine wave, you could get one channel as "sin(x)" and one as "-sin(x)", and you want to flip the sign on the "-sin(x)" to make it "sin(x)").

Oh, and I got your e-mail. Images have been uploaded and links will appear in a couple of minutes.

[Ian @ un4seen]

I want Winamp and CoolPlayer-style Explorer shell integration where I can right click on a file or directory and enqueue it to XMPlay's playlist or start playing it (which means two Context Menu entries) and ALWAYS have XMPlay running in the System Tray ... If I click on the icon in the Tray, it should appear on my desktop and if I minimize it, it should go back to the Tray.  In other words, it should stay out of my way at all times, residing in the Tray unless otherwise told to do so.

Create a shortcut to XMPlay, add "-tray" to it's command-line, and put it in the "StartUp" folder of the start menu... XMPlay will then load into the tray on startup (and stay there unless otherwise told to do so ), and you can use the 2 context menu options ("Open" & "Add to XMPlay-list") to play/queue.

[Swithin]

Oh, cool. Thanks Ian.