Author Topic: Higher resolution DSD do not work in BASS_DSD_DOP  (Read 337 times)

pwatel

  • Posts: 59
Hello my dac supports all DSD samples
but over wasapi which is the way togo
I get
device max sample rate 192000 as it was pcm
file sample rate is 352800
or
file sample rate is 705600
in DOP 1.0 it works and in direct sound as well
but inferior sound quality or it is translated into pcm
...any ideas how we can get around this

« Last Edit: 30 Aug '17 - 13:08 by pwatel »

Ian @ un4seen

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Re: Higher resolution DSD do not work in BASS_DSD_DOP
« Reply #1 on: 30 Aug '17 - 17:52 »
I'm not sure DSD devices generally support extra high DSD rates via DOP, as that requires the device to support extra high PCM rates too. Have you tried using raw DSD output via ASIO instead? You would use BASS_ASIO_SetDSD to set the device to DSD mode, and use the BASS_DSD_RAW flag (instead of BASS_DSD_DOP) in the BASS_DSD_StreamCreateFile call.

Karl-Heinz Fink

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Re: Higher resolution DSD do not work in BASS_DSD_DOP
« Reply #2 on: 31 Aug '17 - 07:06 »
Hi,

the device I used for testing is a Marantz SA10 and that machine supports PCM / DXD 384 kHz / 32 Bit and DSD 11,2 MHz. I tested it more that once on a MAC with Audirvana.
In Audirvana I can see in the settings what format it had detected and it shows PCM 192kHz and DSD 2.8 5.6 11.2

So would it be possible to ignore the 192kHz limit on DSD files?


Karl-Heinz Fink

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Re: Higher resolution DSD do not work in BASS_DSD_DOP
« Reply #3 on: 31 Aug '17 - 07:37 »
...just had a quick chat to one of the engineers, who did the MARANTZ. The driver they are using is more or less a standard XMOS driver. He promised to check if there is a new one, but he told me they can play 384kHz with Foobar and Jriver.

So there might be a problem somewhere reading out the supported formats (again on the MAC I also only got 192kHz, but DSD up to 11.2MHz.

I don't know if it might be a solution to overwrite the detection "by hand" in the program.

Sorry, if that sounds stupid...I'm not a programmer  :P

Ian @ un4seen

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Re: Higher resolution DSD do not work in BASS_DSD_DOP
« Reply #4 on: 31 Aug '17 - 17:53 »
If you are using BASS on OSX, you can try using the BASS_DEVICE_FREQ flag in a BASS_Init call along with whatever sample rate you want in the "freq" parameter. You can then use BASS_GetInfo to check whether the rate request was successful (see the the "freq" value).

Karl-Heinz Fink

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Re: Higher resolution DSD do not work in BASS_DSD_DOP
« Reply #5 on: 1 Sep '17 - 16:15 »
...it's for Windows, not for MAC.

Any idea how to "convince" the player to accept the higher sampling rate?

Best regards

KH

Ian @ un4seen

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Re: Higher resolution DSD do not work in BASS_DSD_DOP
« Reply #6 on: 1 Sep '17 - 17:40 »
If you're running on Windows, I would suggest giving raw DSD output via ASIO (instead of DSD-over-PCM via WASAPI) a try, to avoid any PCM rate limit that the device may have. The BASSASIO package includes a pre-compiled DSDTEST.EXE example (in C\BIN folder) that you could use to quickly try that.

Karl-Heinz Fink

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Re: Higher resolution DSD do not work in BASS_DSD_DOP
« Reply #7 on: 2 Sep '17 - 08:10 »
...unfortunately, the ASIO driver sounds really bad compared with the WASAPI, so this is no option, I'm afraid.

Best regards

KH

Ian @ un4seen

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Re: Higher resolution DSD do not work in BASS_DSD_DOP
« Reply #8 on: 4 Sep '17 - 17:01 »
That's strange. It should sound the same (both should be bit-perfect), assuming the ASIO output has been setup correctly, eg. it's in DSD mode and with the correct rate. For reference, are you able to try ASIO DSD output with the device in other software, and do you hear a problem there too?

pwatel

  • Posts: 59
Re: Higher resolution DSD do not work in BASS_DSD_DOP
« Reply #9 on: 13 Sep '17 - 09:08 »
ASIO is a ugly hack
wasapi is way cleaner
Is there any way to trick the dac driver into percieving a lower sample rate
in dsd  the sample rate has not the same meaning as a pcm so it should not matter

Ian @ un4seen

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Re: Higher resolution DSD do not work in BASS_DSD_DOP
« Reply #10 on: 13 Sep '17 - 16:20 »
I'm not sure about that. ASIO supports raw DSD data. If anything, I would say DSD-over-PCM is the hack :)

pwatel

  • Posts: 59
Re: Higher resolution DSD do not work in BASS_DSD_DOP
« Reply #11 on: 14 Sep '17 - 06:05 »
these hacks are there because DSD was never designed to be run from a computer, but a special device called SACD
and it shows.....

so you recommendation would be via ASIO?
unless wasapi gets an upgrade....

Ian @ un4seen

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Re: Higher resolution DSD do not work in BASS_DSD_DOP
« Reply #12 on: 14 Sep '17 - 15:37 »
Using native DSD output via ASIO will allow you to support higher DSD rates (if the device supports it). A problem with DSD-over-PCM is that it adds significant (33%) overhead, ie. bandwidth is wasted on markers to identify that it's DSD data.

There may be another option. Do you know if your device supports using 2 PCM channels for each DSD channel with 0xf9/0x06 DoP markers? If you're unsure, the first thing to check is whether it supports more than stereo PCM. BASSDSD doesn't currently support this, but the option can probably be added.