Author Topic: Does resampler support 192k?  (Read 5387 times)

shorterxp

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Does resampler support 192k?
« on: 15 Jul '18 - 13:42 »
I think the re sampler only supports 96 input and output. Is 192 is so easy to add?

I am not an advocate of resampling at all, just the situation I'm in with the current hardware I can't play 192 material.

It would be nice to upsample stuff with min. phase filter too. For instance its possible to key any number in the drop down box in the options. So in current state you can upsample 44.1 to 88.2 for example. No idea if filter is linear/min.phase though. users can only enter 19200 currently. The last digit is un-enterable?
« Last Edit: 15 Jul '18 - 13:46 by shorterxp »

Ian @ un4seen

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Re: Does resampler support 192k?
« Reply #1 on: 16 Jul '18 - 14:02 »
Yes, XMPlay does support 192000 Hz output. The "Sample rate" box should be wide enough for 6 digits, but it sounds like it isn't there? Can you post a screenshot of the "Output" options page? Also confirm what Windows version you are using.

shorterxp

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Re: Does resampler support 192k?
« Reply #2 on: 30 Jul '18 - 18:58 »
Hi, sorry for delayed reponse wifi was down for days.

As requested:


True, XMPlay supports 192, however my curiosty lies in whether the resampler can accept 192.

A case in point, with a device that supports 192 present, w/o resampler, everyhting works as expected.
Should one stop playback, enable resampler and enter "96000" then resume, playback stutters.
It stutters regardless of SRC quality, buffer size in ASIO or ASIO interface settings.
Hence my curiosity as to whether the resmapler accepts 192.  :)

« Last Edit: 30 Jul '18 - 22:30 by shorterxp »

Ian @ un4seen

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Re: Does resampler support 192k?
« Reply #3 on: 31 Jul '18 - 14:50 »
Yes, the resampler should support pretty much any input rate. From your screenshot, it looks like you're using an old XMPlay version (3.8.0.5). Please try upgrading to the latest and see if you still have the problem (and if the "Sample rate" box still won't fit 6 digits). If you do still have the problem, does it also happen when using the default output system (eg. "Microsoft Sound Mapper") or only when using ASIO?

shorterxp

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Re: Does resampler support 192k?
« Reply #4 on: 31 Jul '18 - 15:58 »
I restrained from updating to latest because of a plugin incompatibility.

Back on topic, with 3.8.3.4 the same 5 character limit + stutter still happens..

Thanks for support. Downsampling 192k to 96k isn't really important, but I was interested in being able to up sample on the fly with a fixed point minimum phase filter was possible (not to be picky or anyhting IAN :P)
« Last Edit: 31 Jul '18 - 19:18 by shorterxp »

Ian @ un4seen

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Re: Does resampler support 192k?
« Reply #5 on: 31 Jul '18 - 17:00 »
OK, I will increase the width of the "Output rate" box in the next update. Btw, what Windows version and theme are you using?

To help narrow down what's causing the stutter, does it also happen when you use the default output system (eg. "Microsoft Sound Mapper") or the "WAV Writer"? If not, do you happen to have another ASIO driver (besides ASIO4ALL), and does the problem happen with that too?

shorterxp

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Re: Does resampler support 192k?
« Reply #6 on: 31 Jul '18 - 17:04 »
Okay. I tried different ASIO drivers, Creative ASIO, Maudio ASIO, ASIO4ALL, Microsoft Sound Mapper. Not tested WAV writer, it takes for ever, when I say it stutters, it plays back slower aswell, so my guess is the file writer undergoes same problem, the seconds count up just as slow as if I were playing the file.

Theme: Its rare, from XP POS Ready 2009. Can you believe MS will support that until 2019. My local supermaket has it installed on self serve machines. With XMPlay Lithe skin the combination looks really nice.
Its on deviant art, its an official theme so doesn't need OS mods to work. I use it in conunction with this: logon screen.
However that does require file protection to be disabled to replace logonui.exe system32.



I use same wallpaper as background in Dream Aquarium screensaver:


The fish are being fed lol
« Last Edit: 31 Jul '18 - 19:13 by shorterxp »

Ian @ un4seen

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Re: Does resampler support 192k?
« Reply #7 on: 31 Jul '18 - 17:29 »
Okay. I tried different ASIO drivers, Creative ASIO, Maudio ASIO, ASIO4ALL, WIndows SOund Mapper. Not tested WAV writer, it takes for ever, when I say it stutters, it plays back slower aswell, so my guess is the file writer undergoes same problem, the seconds count up just as slow as if I were playing the file.

What CPU does that system have? It sounds like the problem is that the CPU isn't powerful enough to perform the resampling and other processing in realtime. What does Task Manager say about the CPU usage? You could try lowering the "SRC quality" setting to reduce the CPU usage.

shorterxp

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Re: Does resampler support 192k?
« Reply #8 on: 31 Jul '18 - 17:34 »
3.33 Ghz E8600. Maybe it lacks certain instructions, I don't know. CPU usage at 1% w/ SRC at lowest quality. I though maybe plugins were to blame, disabled them all, same result.

May I ask if you intend to make the resmapler min. phase? Its widely accepted as being more natural....

I'm testing WAV writer right now.


PS when I said: "I am not an advocate of resampling at all, just the situation I'm in with the current hardware I can't play 192 material."
What I mean was, the devices can play 192 but throught their own dacs. Instead I would like to send 96 via SPDIF to external DAC. The devices, creative and maudio have SPDIF functionality, the creative (and external DAC) is capped at 96k. The maudio can do 192 via SPDIF but outboard dac wont recieve obviously.

Update
The output from File Writer plays OK (file resampled 192 to 96).
« Last Edit: 31 Jul '18 - 19:22 by shorterxp »

saga

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Re: Does resampler support 192k?
« Reply #9 on: 31 Jul '18 - 19:05 »
OK, I will increase the width of the "Output rate" box in the next update.
Ian, it sounds like you really should be setting the ES_AUTOHSCROLL property (on any edit control, really) so that the maximum value that can be input does not depend on font sizes. Just increasing the input field size is just a workaround.

Ian @ un4seen

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Re: Does resampler support 192k?
« Reply #10 on: 1 Aug '18 - 14:03 »
3.33 Ghz E8600. Maybe it lacks certain instructions, I don't know. CPU usage at 1% w/ SRC at lowest quality. I though maybe plugins were to blame, disabled them all, same result.

That CPU should be plenty powerful enough. I'm not sure what else could cause the WAV writer to be slower than realtime speed (it should go as fast as the will CPU allow). What does Task Manager show while using the WAV writer? Is the WAV writer only slow when resampling is used, ie. when "Apply sample rate to all file formats" is enabled?

Ian, it sounds like you really should be setting the ES_AUTOHSCROLL property

Yeah, that's probably a better idea :)

shorterxp

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Re: Does resampler support 192k?
« Reply #11 on: 1 Aug '18 - 16:27 »
Ignore what I said about WAV writer not working. It does.
With WAV Writer Output, and resampler enabled, playing the resultant file, works (if resampler set to 96k).

shorterxp

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Re: Does resampler support 192k?
« Reply #12 on: 2 Aug '18 - 17:37 »
So if WAV writer works but realtime resampling doesn't what are the possibilities then?

Ian @ un4seen

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Re: Does resampler support 192k?
« Reply #13 on: 6 Aug '18 - 15:18 »
Is the WAV writer going faster than realtime speed, eg. a 1 minute file takes less than 1 minute to write?

What happens to playback if you resample the 192KHz file to a different rate, eg. 44100 or 48000 Hz? If that sounds fine, what happens if you play a 96KHz file without resampling?

shorterxp

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Re: Does resampler support 192k?
« Reply #14 on: 9 Aug '18 - 21:58 »
File writer, over a one minute period, lagged about 7seconds behind. Stop watch was started as I pressed play.

Writing to 48k, same thing happen file writer has approc 7sec lag. The file plays fine.

96khz plays fine without resmapling as previously said.  :P


Ian @ un4seen

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Re: Does resampler support 192k?
« Reply #15 on: 10 Aug '18 - 14:39 »
If the WAV writer is so slow then that suggests that it is a CPU power issue, but you say XMPlay only takes 1% CPU during playback? What is the CPU usage while writing the WAV file?

Please try using this "NULL" output plugin and see how long it takes (go to the Output->NULL options page):

   www.un4seen.com/stuff/xmp-null.dll

shorterxp

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Re: Does resampler support 192k?
« Reply #16 on: 10 Aug '18 - 14:46 »
11% max

Using null, discrepency is greater, about 28seconds per minutes of playback.

This was with resamp on i.e. 192>96

« Last Edit: 10 Aug '18 - 15:44 by shorterxp »

Ian @ un4seen

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Re: Does resampler support 192k?
« Reply #17 on: 10 Aug '18 - 17:58 »
Is that on the E8600 CPU again, with 2 cores? If so, 11% is 22% of a core. I would expect the NULL output to use pretty much 100% of a core. Do you have other things using a lot of CPU? What is the system's total CPU usage?

shorterxp

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Re: Does resampler support 192k?
« Reply #18 on: 10 Aug '18 - 21:57 »
Same CPU, null output:


Your welcome to use one of those 3rd party apps things that let users control PCs... a suggestion.

Thanks 4 your support ;)
« Last Edit: 10 Aug '18 - 22:04 by shorterxp »

shorterxp

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Re: Does resampler support 192k?
« Reply #19 on: 10 Aug '18 - 22:08 »
I put the 24bit 192 file through WAV writer (resampler:off) to merely convert WAV format.

Played it back with resampler on (to 96k) and it works.:


Is this possible a dodgy FLAC file, encode or decode?? Is your decoder broken ian?  ;D

I mean, even windows media player EIGHT with the right filter installed can play 24/192 and resample to 96 on the fly better than XMplay at this point...  :D (not to rub anything in or anything)


(I'm not a fierce advocate of 24bit though)
« Last Edit: 10 Aug '18 - 22:56 by shorterxp »

Ian @ un4seen

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Re: Does resampler support 192k?
« Reply #20 on: 13 Aug '18 - 16:35 »
From your first screenshot, it looks like you're using the Winamp FLAC plugin (in_flac.dll), not the XMPlay FLAC plugin (xmp-flac.dll). Please try the latter and see if you still have the problem then.

shorterxp

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Re: Does resampler support 192k?
« Reply #21 on: 13 Aug '18 - 21:54 »
Your right. xmp-flac works. sorry for this.
I used in_flac on the basis that used fixed point decoding, so at least thats what I gathered years ago.

So if both in_flac and xmp-flac it seems are based on libFLAC (Josh Coalson) ...

...does that mean xmp-flac and all implentaitons of libFLAC for that matter, like that used in bass libraries, are fixed point too?

EDIT: I think the answer is on the FLAC wiki
Quote
FLAC supports only fixed-point samples, not floating-point.
Still unsure if a decoder can be made floating point or not at this point.
« Last Edit: 13 Aug '18 - 22:06 by shorterxp »

Ian @ un4seen

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Re: Does resampler support 192k?
« Reply #22 on: 15 Aug '18 - 12:56 »
FLAC is a lossless format, which means the decoded data will be exactly the same as the original data. You don't really need to worry about how it gets there (eg. if there's any floating-point maths involved).

shorterxp

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Re: Does resampler support 192k?
« Reply #23 on: 15 Aug '18 - 17:13 »
Yes but I'd still like to know if which the decoder is float or not. I don't understand why float prevails when:


I tested the dither on another popular player. IT is floating point. The dither compands. This is against convention established decades ago, wherein dither should be signal independant and prefferably TDPF.

Also, can you add this?


I've longed for a music player with minimum phase upsampling algorithm for a while now. Again I don't advocate  changing sample rates of any sort in digital audio, the dilema today is of course most music was recorded at low rates to begin with.

Honestly I would pay hundereds for software that was 100% fixed point and had an upsampling algorithm (to otherwise assume the place of a 'hardware' digital filter, which are mostly done in assembly. But devs don't seem to get it. I've noticed that soem people who make plugins get this though and have started to bullet point "re-written in assembly!" on thie products. seriously man.

Perhaps I should start a new thread. But to finalise this one:

« Last Edit: 15 Aug '18 - 17:35 by shorterxp »

Ian @ un4seen

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Re: Does resampler support 192k?
« Reply #24 on: 15 Aug '18 - 17:39 »
Also, can you add this?


There are no plans for that, sorry.