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[Ian @ un4seen]

...but why did the end result sound worse than the updated bassmidi.dll posted in this thread ?

I haven't checked to confirm it, but it's likely due to the AWE32 NRPN 24 (Envelope 1 to Filter Cutoff) and AWE32 NRPN 7 (Envelope 1 decay time) that are unsupported. If you would like to confirm what effect those NRPN are having, you could try removing them from the file and then playing it on your SB soundcard.

Anyway, BASSMIDI has been around since 2006, and the only other AWE32 NRPN request I can find in that time is one from 2011, funnily enough referring to the same "The Nervous Filter" file:

   www.un4seen.com/forum/?topic=12563

So AWE32 NRPN really doesn't seem to be much in demand, and not worth spending a lot of time on. Sorry. Perhaps you could just play/record your stuff on your SB soundcard? You can capture the sound from the soundcard's "What U Hear" device.

[klerg]

I haven't checked to confirm it, but it's likely due to the AWE32 NRPN 24 (Envelope 1 to Filter Cutoff) and AWE32 NRPN 7 (Envelope 1 decay time) that are unsupported. If you would like to confirm what effect those NRPN are having, you could try removing them from the file and then playing it on your SB soundcard.

Anyway, BASSMIDI has been around since 2006, and the only other AWE32 NRPN request I can find in that time is one from 2011, funnily enough referring to the same "The Nervous Filter" file:

   www.un4seen.com/forum/?topic=12563

So AWE32 NRPN really doesn't seem to be much in demand, and not worth spending a lot of time on. Sorry. Perhaps you could just play/record your stuff on your SB soundcard? You can capture the sound from the soundcard's "What U Hear" device.

But I thought the updated bassmidi.dll in this thread also is unable to support AWE32 NRPN 24 (Envelope 1 to Filter Cutoff) and AWE32 NRPN 7 (Envelope 1 decay time) is that right ? Yes, if I find a way to delete only select NRPN, and not all of them, will try that for sure and it will be interesting to hear how it is going to sound.

Also, why can the filter barely be heard if the cutoff is at 37.5 Hz ? And can AWE32 NRPN 24 (Envelope 1 to Filter Cutoff) and AWE32 NRPN 7 (Envelope 1 decay time) be added to bassmidi.dll ?

That is quite a long time and is almost twenty years now. I also came across this thread and was on my way to post here, but you beat me to it looks like. Too bad it used the same "The Nervous Filter" MIDI

Yes, that does not mean AWE32 NRPN is no good but it is hard to use, yes I doubt it will take a very long time. Sure. The point is to not need any SB soundcard but just software. That is true but it not going to help get AWE32 NRPN working.

[Ian @ un4seen]

Also, why can the filter barely be heard if the cutoff is at 37.5 Hz ?

If you're using Falcosoft's soundfont then the preset also has an envelope that raises the cutoff by up to 4000 Hz, meaning the final cutoff may be 4037.5 Hz. If you would like to see what exactly a soundfont is doing (and perhaps change it), you can do so by loading it into a soundfont editor, eg. Vienna Soundfont Studio or Polyphone.

And can AWE32 NRPN 24 (Envelope 1 to Filter Cutoff) and AWE32 NRPN 7 (Envelope 1 decay time) be added to bassmidi.dll ?

Not at this time, sorry. If they're added, next you may ask for some other AWE32 NRPN to be added, so I'd rather just not step any further onto that slippery slope. Perhaps that'll change in future if AWE32 NRPN suddenly becomes popular to make supporting it more worthwhile.

[klerg]

If you're using Falcosoft's soundfont then the preset also has an envelope that raises the cutoff by up to 4000 Hz, meaning the final cutoff may be 4037.5 Hz. If you would like to see what exactly a soundfont is doing (and perhaps change it), you can do so by loading it into a soundfont editor, eg. Vienna Soundfont Studio or Polyphone.

Yes, for that preset the Falcosoft soundfont is using the same one from the Creative Labs 4 MB GM soundfont. If the final cutoff is at 4037.5 Hz then does the SB hardware keep it at 37.5 Hz so that the filter can be heard ? Sure, I have Polyphone, Viena SoundFont Editor, and Vienna Soundfont Studio, but that can only be used with an SB soundcard.

Not at this time, sorry. If they're added, next you may ask for some other AWE32 NRPN to be added, so I'd rather just not step any further onto that slippery slope. Perhaps that'll change in future if AWE32 NRPN suddenly becomes popular to make supporting it more worthwhile.

I see that is too bad. No, as I mentioned from the outset, if full AWE32 NRPN support is not possible then if it sounds very close that will be fine so no slippery slope from me. Well AWE32 NRPN may never get popular but what is your benchmark to know that it is in high demand ?

[Ian @ un4seen]

If the final cutoff is at 4037.5 Hz then does the SB hardware keep it at 37.5 Hz so that the filter can be heard ?

Note that 4037.5 Hz cutoff example only applies to BASSMIDI (due to its absolute/relative conversion of AWE32 NRPN 21), and it would actually be even higher on SB hardware according to the spec. But the AWE32 NRPN 24 (Envelope 1 to Filter Cutoff) and AWE32 NRPN 7 (Envelope 1 decay time) are modifying the envelope, so that it doesn't necessarily raise the cutoff by 4000 Hz and/or it falls back down at a different rate.

[klerg]

Note that 4037.5 Hz cutoff example only applies to BASSMIDI (due to its absolute/relative conversion of AWE32 NRPN 21), and it would actually be even higher on SB hardware according to the spec. But the AWE32 NRPN 24 (Envelope 1 to Filter Cutoff) and AWE32 NRPN 7 (Envelope 1 decay time) are modifying the envelope, so that it doesn't necessarily raise the cutoff by 4000 Hz and/or it falls back down at a different rate.

Yes it makes sense that the absolute to relative conversion of BASSMIDI puts the cutoff at 4037.5 Hz. I take that it goes up to 4579 Hz on the SB hardware given the settings of the preset in the soundfont. So, now we know AWE32 NRPN 21 (Envelope 1 to Filter Cutoff) and AWE32 NRPN 7 (Envelope 1 decay time) is what keeps the filter at 37.5 Hz or how to find out what the different rate is going to be anyway and in what way can you tell AWE32 NRPN is 'popular' ?

[klerg]

How to know or find out at what rate AWE32 NRPN 24 (Envelope 1 to Filter Cutoff) and AWE32 NRPN 7 (Envelope 1 decay time) alters the cutoff ?

[Ian @ un4seen]

The PDF that you linked earlier describes the effect of those NRPN. If you want to know about the "The Nervous Filter" file specifically, then you will need to check the NRPN values used in it (note they are used many times with varying values) and translate them using the info from the PDF.

[klerg]

Sure but that link you sent before the PDF explains it a bit better. Yes, I'm still stuck on "The Nervous Filter" MIDI for now, and just started to look at the NRPN values inside this (true and that is why it takes some time to see it all) So far, I'm not able to tell anything of note, what am I missing ?

[klerg]

How to know that AWE32 NRPN is in high demand so BASSMIDI can get full support ?

[Ian @ un4seen]

Some indicators of demand for AWE32 NRPN would be seeing it used in new MIDI files and supported by other software/synths. But it seems unlikely now that AWE32 NRPN will ever become popular, as it doesn't appear to have been used very much even back when everyone had a SoundBlaster, so it's probably best not to get your hopes up for it!

[klerg]

Well, lucky for you I just found ten MIDI files that use AWE32 NRPN's and can probably look up some more. Also, SynthFont has had AWE32 NRPN for a year now. AWE32 NRPN are needed for electronic music, like electronica, techno, and trance. That is not really the case, as three to four composers made these ten MIDI files with AWE32 NRPN's. Can BASSMIDI support it ?

[Ian @ un4seen]

When I said there are currently no plans for AWE32 NRPN support but perhaps that'll change in future, I didn't mean a couple of weeks later

If you can provide more example MIDI files, that may help in future but I'm afraid there are still no plans for it right now.

[klerg]

So if not a couple weeks later than how long will it take to put full AWE32 NRPN support in BASSMIDI and what can I help with that ?

Let me know when you need more AWE32 NRPN MIDI files, but why is there still no have plans for this and what is the hold up ?

[Chris]

Ian will develop with priorities and size of demand. There here much other Libs here which have a bigger size of demand.
I´m here now over 21 Years and you are the first user which ask of AWE32 Support here in the Forum.
So you have to wait till here comes a bigger Demand of AWE32 NRPN.
Chris

[Ian @ un4seen]

So if not a couple weeks later than how long will it take to put full AWE32 NRPN support in BASSMIDI and what can I help with that ?

Let me know when you need more AWE32 NRPN MIDI files, but why is there still no have plans for this and what is the hold up ?

I just don't think AWE32 NRPN currently warrants the amount of time that it'd take to implement properly, nor to be given priority over other things. Right now it's probably best to assume that it'll never happen. Then if it does happen, it'll be a nice surprise.

[klerg]

Yes that makes sense and is the best way to work. What do you mean by 'Libs' and which ones have a bigger size of demand ?
I see and that is a very long time but someone else did ask for AWE32 NRPN here and the link is in this thread
But there may never be a bigger demand for AWE32 NRPN, what to do then ?

I just don't think AWE32 NRPN currently warrants the amount of time that it'd take to implement properly, nor to be given priority over other things. Right now it's probably best to assume that it'll never happen. Then if it does happen, it'll be a nice surprise.

Well, if you tell me how I can help then maybe AWE32 NRPN will not take so long to add into BASSMIDI right away, what has more priority for you over this ? That is not a good thing to assume and hope this will change soon. Can I do anything for this surprise to happen ?

[klerg]

Can someone tell me what are 'Libs" and which ones have a big size of demand ? And what is something that has more priority over AWE32 NRPN's ?

[Ian @ un4seen]

And what is something that has more priority over AWE32 NRPN's ?

The next BASS and XMPlay releases, to name 2 things. If you absolutely need AWE32 NRPN support now then I'm afraid you will have to look elsewhere. I'm locking this thread now, as everything has been said and we're now just repeating ourselves.