Author Topic: XMPlay RealAudio plugin  (Read 320203 times)

Fraggie

  • Posts: 710
Re: XMPlay RealAudio plugin
« Reply #150 on: 4 Apr '07 - 10:32 »
I guess I have too many projects on my hands... I'll try to get this problem fixed as soon as possible. It's indeed critical.

Auren

  • Posts: 144
Re: XMPlay RealAudio plugin
« Reply #151 on: 3 Jun '07 - 18:21 »
Fraggie, couldn't you tell us your plans about RealAudio plugin? 2 months elapsed but there is no news...

Fraggie

  • Posts: 710
Re: XMPlay RealAudio plugin
« Reply #152 on: 5 Jun '07 - 10:10 »
Fraggie, couldn't you tell us your plans about RealAudio plugin? 2 months elapsed but there is no news...
I havn't deleted anything, so don't worry. :)

The primary goal for this plugin was to support every possible Real Audio format. And it does that. (It plays the very old and outdated RA 1.0 and it plays RA 10.0 multichannel files and the new lossless RALF-encoded files (xmp-ra, except for RealPlayer, is the only way to play them, as far as I know).) Now, I don't feel too motivated to spent my really scarce free time to investigate why the messy RTSP protocol fails to stream from some servers... But I think I will do it eventually. :) I also may share the source code if someone is willing to contribute to this project.

Auren

  • Posts: 144
Re: XMPlay RealAudio plugin
« Reply #153 on: 5 Jun '07 - 15:44 »
Sorry, but I think you are mistaken about supporting any codec.

Read my post :) :

http://www.un4seen.com/forum/?topic=5370.msg40772#msg40772

Fraggie

  • Posts: 710
Re: XMPlay RealAudio plugin
« Reply #154 on: 5 Jun '07 - 18:06 »
It's again problem with streaming.

Auren

  • Posts: 144
Re: XMPlay RealAudio plugin
« Reply #155 on: 6 Jun '07 - 16:13 »
Nope :). It's a problem of the actual file. I have downloaded an .rm file and tried to open it on my computer. Media Player Classic played it perfectly but XMPlay did not. You said that this is because of using multiple codecs, which current RealAudio plugin doesn't support.

And also there is a problem of unexpected errors that XMPlay produces when scans a huge amount of files with RealAudio plugin switched on.
« Last Edit: 6 Jun '07 - 16:15 by Auren »

Fraggie

  • Posts: 710
Re: XMPlay RealAudio plugin
« Reply #156 on: 6 Jun '07 - 16:25 »
Allright. You win. :) This is a challange I can take. ;)

Auren

  • Posts: 144
Re: XMPlay RealAudio plugin
« Reply #157 on: 6 Jun '07 - 17:30 »
Thanks!  :)

And sorry for taking a piece of your scarce free time  ::)

PVTele

  • Posts: 48
Re: XMPlay RealAudio plugin
« Reply #158 on: 7 Jun '07 - 14:03 »
And also there is a problem of unexpected errors that XMPlay produces when scans a huge amount of files with RealAudio plugin switched on.

Like the issue with crashing when library monitoring is enabled, as we discussed earlier ;)

[ Ref: http://www.un4seen.com/forum/?topic=6977.msg47433#msg47433 ]

Thanks Fraggie, in advance!
« Last Edit: 7 Jun '07 - 14:10 by PVTele »

Soheyl

  • Posts: 1
Re: XMPlay RealAudio plugin
« Reply #159 on: 10 Jun '07 - 06:15 »
Thanks Dear;
This plugin can't play:

http://www.lora.ch/program/sounds/loralive.smil
rtsp://a742.l211050594.c2110.g.lr.akamaistream.net/live/D/742/2110/v0001/reflector:50594

I tested "Tara" plugin that's can play those.
Please release new edition  ;D

Also i have a question but don't no this topic is for it or no (sorry for it & my englsih)

In Firefox when open PNM protocol don't allow open that link & when i want copy that url to XMPlay for play, i can't find true url, i think if add this function for integrate with this is very cool & xmplay with this plugin don't integrated file type it's very bad (again sorry for english & this question hear).

Thanks  ;)
« Last Edit: 10 Jun '07 - 16:55 by Soheyl »

Coffee

  • Posts: 9
Re: XMPlay RealAudio plugin
« Reply #160 on: 27 Jun '07 - 21:54 »
Fraggie, have you got any news regarding the problem the real plugin has with the BBC channels but not with other rtsp streams? I've got a brand new installation of Windows XP, with the latest Real Alternative (v1.52), the latest XMPlay (v3.41) and your latest plugin (beta 6). All the DLLs are where they should be and everything works well ... except for these 8 BBC stations:


BBC Radio 1:
rtsp://rmlive.bbc.co.uk/bbc-rbs/rmlive/ev7/live24/radio1/live/r1_dsat_g2.ra

BBC Radio 2:
rtsp://rmlive.bbc.co.uk/bbc-rbs/rmlive/ev7/live24/radio2/live/r2_dsat_g2.ra

BBC Radio 3:
rtsp://rmlive.bbc.co.uk/bbc-rbs/rmlive/ev7/live24/radio3/live/r3_dsat_g2.ra

BBC Radio 4:
rtsp://rmlive.bbc.co.uk/bbc-rbs/rmlive/ev7/live24/radio4/live/r4_dsat_g2.ra

BBC Radio 5:
rtsp://rmlive.bbc.co.uk/bbc-rbs/rmlive/ev7/live24/radio5/live/r5_tl_int_g2.ra

BBC Radio 6:
rtsp://rmlive.bbc.co.uk/bbc-rbs/rmlive/ev7/live24/6music/live/6music_dsat_g2.ra

BBC Radio 7:
rtsp://rmlive.bbc.co.uk/bbc-rbs/rmlive/ev7/live24/bbc7/live/bbc7_dsat_g2.ra

BBC World Service:
rtsp://rmlive.bbc.co.uk/bbc-rbs/rmlive/ev7/live24/worldservice/liveinfent.ra


... which is really a shame as I listen a lot to R4 and the World Service. All these streams work well for 87 to 90 seconds and then just stop. I can repeat this any number of times, it's always the same. In XMPlay's info window I can see how the the buffer runs dry after exactly 87-90 seconds and the whole thing comes to a halt. I wonder why this happens only with streams from the BBC and not with other Real streams like for example the WRN (World Radio Network) ...

rtsp://217.163.8.206/farm/217.163.8.204/encoder/wrnengus.rm?cloakport="80,554,7070"

... which runs happily for hours. I know very little about streaming audio in general and I know nothing about the protocol and the apparently messy implementation rtsp streams. Is it possible that there is some sort of a server lease that has to be refreshed once in a while? Do you know if there's documentation about this available? Or are even the specs of RealMedia, err ... proprietary ... hush, hush ... top secret?
:-)

Coffee

  • Posts: 9
Re: XMPlay RealAudio plugin
« Reply #161 on: 27 Jun '07 - 22:41 »
Ahhh, by the way, I forgot to tell you that you're not alone with this. The latest version of VLC (v0.86b) comes with tons of codecs and plugins. And it seems to have the same or a similar problem with BBC streams ... either it bombs out completely after 90 seconds or, after a short hick-up, it catches up with the stream but only produces mangled rubbish at the output. MPC and Winamp/Tara on the other hand, work well with BBC streams. I imagine that the original RealPlayer works, too. But I don't want to mess-up my tidy new XP installation with this horror of a media player.

Fraggie

  • Posts: 710
Re: XMPlay RealAudio plugin
« Reply #162 on: 28 Jun '07 - 16:32 »
Fraggie, have you got any news regarding the problem the real plugin has with the BBC channels but not with other rtsp streams?
Actually, no.

I wonder why this happens only with streams from the BBC and not with other Real streams like for example the WRN (World Radio Network) ...
It doesn't make me sleepless, but I wonder too. :)

I know very little about streaming audio in general and I know nothing about the protocol and the apparently messy implementation rtsp streams. Is it possible that there is some sort of a server lease that has to be refreshed once in a while? Do you know if there's documentation about this available? Or are even the specs of RealMedia, err ... proprietary ... hush, hush ... top secret?
:-)
The only documentation there is available is for the RMFF container. You'll find nothing on the codecs used after RA 3.0 or the RTSP/RTD protocol.

Ahhh, by the way, I forgot to tell you that you're not alone with this. The latest version of VLC (v0.86b) comes with tons of codecs and plugins. And it seems to have the same or a similar problem with BBC streams ... either it bombs out completely after 90 seconds or, after a short hick-up, it catches up with the stream but only produces mangled rubbish at the output. MPC and Winamp/Tara on the other hand, work well with BBC streams. I imagine that the original RealPlayer works, too. But I don't want to mess-up my tidy new XP installation with this horror of a media player.
Well, I consider this a good news. :) Anyways, I suspect that the BBC server might be finding out that the real audio plugin is only pretending to be RealPlayer, like "Hey, your not Real Networks software, face the consequences!". :)

Dotpitch

  • Posts: 2871
Re: XMPlay RealAudio plugin
« Reply #163 on: 28 Jun '07 - 20:09 »
Well, I consider this a good news. :) Anyways, I suspect that the BBC server might be finding out that the real audio plugin is only pretending to be RealPlayer, like "Hey, your not Real Networks software, face the consequences!". :)
I doubt that. I've just sniffed the network traffic from my pc to BBC when listening to the stream, and XMPlay reports as being a RealMedia Player 6 on Linux, but the stream starts anyway. There are two other differences between XMPlay and RealPlayer or MPC though.
First, the latter use RTSP over RDT (Real Data Transport) (probably another badly documented protocol). Because of backwards compatibility, the server probably won't blame you for not using it.
Second, RealPlayer and MPC send out packets to detect bandwidth problems. It's the same as when starting the stream: "SET_PARAMETER [url] SetDeliveryBandwidth: Bandwidth=[bandwidth]", but the bandwidth can be alterned to fit the available connection. The server replies with an RTSP/1.0 200 OK, and switches the stream if necessary. These packets are sent on intervals, RealPlayer seemed to prefer 20 or 30 seconds, but MPC takes 60 seconds.
Now, I don't know about VLC, but XMPlay doesn't send these packets. The server drops the stream after 90 seconds, without notifying the client (no FIN or closing request is sent, the stream just stops).

My best guess is that BBC expects you to send these packets, to ensure a proper delivery of the audio. It expects at least one packet every 60 seconds, and if none is recieved, it'll wait a little longer to make sure you're really not sending one (about 30 seconds) before considering your connection as lost and cutting off the stream.

I briefly looked at this, but does it sound plausible?

Fraggie

  • Posts: 710
Re: XMPlay RealAudio plugin
« Reply #164 on: 29 Jun '07 - 11:35 »
Thanks for looking into it. Do you still have the logs? I would like to see them. Especially the RealPlayer ones (I'm not going to install it again... :) )

Dotpitch

  • Posts: 2871
Re: XMPlay RealAudio plugin
« Reply #165 on: 29 Jun '07 - 12:10 »
Turns out XMPlay did get some message from the server, OPTIONS was sent 10 seconds before the stream stops. Also, XMPlay knows the stream is going to end, because the Data size is known close to 90 seconds (5 or 10 seconds in advance). I've sent you the logs :).

Fraggie

  • Posts: 710
Re: XMPlay RealAudio plugin
« Reply #166 on: 29 Jun '07 - 20:03 »
I didn't receive anything. :( Please use email address from here http://www.un4seen.com/forum/?action=profile;u=103.

Fraggie

  • Posts: 710
Re: XMPlay RealAudio plugin
« Reply #167 on: 30 Jun '07 - 11:41 »
You're right Dotpitch! :) The problem is because the plugin doesn't send the SET_PARAMETER with bandwith messages. The server puts a 80 sec timeout. If the client doesn't give a sign it's still alive, the server cuts the connection. Both MPC and RealPlayer do that just by sending bandwith info in the intrvals you write.

Brian

  • Posts: 733
Re: XMPlay RealAudio plugin
« Reply #168 on: 30 Jun '07 - 20:38 »
Can the plugin be fixed to deal with this, please?

Fraggie

  • Posts: 710
Re: XMPlay RealAudio plugin
« Reply #169 on: 1 Jul '07 - 15:43 »
Beta 7 of the Real Audio plugin has been released.

Changes since beta 6 include:
 - notification sending to server (helps the BBC streams)
 - multiple audio streams support (chooses highest bitrate stream automatically)
 - some demuxer bugfixes
 - support for update notification
 - REMOVED SMIL SUPPORT

SMIL support has been removed for now, since the SMIL parser is responsible for the crashes everyone experience.

Brian

  • Posts: 733
Re: XMPlay RealAudio plugin
« Reply #170 on: 1 Jul '07 - 18:23 »
Thanks very much for this. Here are some initial findings:

(1) The problem with BBC streams seems to have been successfully fixed.

(2) The plugin seems to have difficulty with audio streams with embedded video - they just keep buffering and never start playing. Here is an example:

http://vodreal.stanford.edu/opa/philo/060117.ram

Is the plugin supposed to be able to play the video element (which in the above example is in fact only a static picture)? Of course I have the relevant option checked in the plugin config.

(3) Selections I make in the plugin config dialog aren't saved after restarting XMPlay; they are only saved by directly editing xmplay.ini.

Coffee

  • Posts: 9
Re: XMPlay RealAudio plugin
« Reply #171 on: 2 Jul '07 - 01:04 »
It works ... fantastic! Thanks very much for that, Fraggie. I'm so glad I can now listen to all my audio stuff with just one player and don't have to revert to Winamp for this, to MPC for that and so on. Thanks also to you, Dotpitch, for the research you've done on this and for motivating Fraggie :-)

Shame though, there's still an issue with .smil streams. National Public Radio (NPR) and some other public broadcasters have chosen this format. I wonder why it is that especially such broadcasters who live on their listeners' license fees choose such proprietary formats. With the BBC this has been an ongoing issue ever since they decided to go with the RealMedia bullsh*t instead of a decent, preferably free format. Since years there have been tons of complaints to the BBC's board of directors but they really don't care what their listeners think. Corporate zombies like that want to deal with other corporate zombies. That's why they invite the likes of RealMedia, Microsoft and their ilk. I'm sure, if the technical staff at the BBC had their way, we would have ogg streams for all the BBC's channels.

Ufff ... I'm getting political here ... sorry! :-)

There are now just two more bits with XMPlay I would like to see amended sometime in the future. They're both more or less trivial but can be quite irritating and a real nuisance at times. The first is the volume regulation via the mouse wheel. This should only be active (if at all) when the mouse pointer hovers over the XMPlay window and not on the entire desktop. I always forget about this, go into the windows file manager,  use the wheel to scroll up or down and instead I change the volume ... annoying! The second issue is that audio files are not properly closed and released when XMPlay ist stopped (stop key). Although the track doesn't play any more it still cannot be moved or deleted in the file manager. For that it is necessary to either play another track or to close down XMPlay altogether. But compared with the RealMedia issue Fraggie has just solved, these two issues are just cosmetic.

Auren

  • Posts: 144
Re: XMPlay RealAudio plugin
« Reply #172 on: 2 Jul '07 - 01:07 »
Beta 7 of the Real Audio plugin has been released.

...

SMIL support has been removed for now, since the SMIL parser is responsible for the crashes everyone experience.

Thank you very much, it really works! But if you removed SMIL support, remove it from the options window too :)


There are some more requests and bugs:

1. Sometimes XMPlay suddenly closes with Windows' "memory read error" problem when I try to play this stream: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/shows/rpms/radio1/trophy_sat.rpm Sometimes it begins to play it from the third or fourth attempt - at other attempts XMPlay covers the link with one horizontal rule (just like it can't play it).

2. Is it possible to add a feature to seek through the streams (like Media Player Classic does)?

That's all. Sorry for my bad English. And keep up your good work!
« Last Edit: 2 Jul '07 - 01:28 by Auren »

Dotpitch

  • Posts: 2871
Re: XMPlay RealAudio plugin
« Reply #173 on: 2 Jul '07 - 09:39 »
The first is the volume regulation via the mouse wheel.
The second issue is that audio files are not properly closed and released when XMPlay ist stopped (stop key).
1. Add NoWheelVol=1 to the [XMPLAY] section of xmplay.ini (more hidden in options here).
2. Files aren't closed at all when you stop them. Click stop again to unload the file ;).

Coffee

  • Posts: 9
Re: XMPlay RealAudio plugin
« Reply #174 on: 3 Jul '07 - 17:37 »
> Add NoWheelVol=1 to the [XMPLAY] section
> of xmplay.ini  (more hidden in options here).

... thanks Dotpitch, this works. But shouldn't
this be an option in XMPlay's config menu?


> Files aren't closed at all when you stop them.
> Click stop again to unload the file.

... yes, I noticed that. But isn't it a little odd
for an application to keep a tight grip on a
file it doesn't use any more? I mean this
sort of behaviour should be reserved
for the Pause mode. Stop should
close and release the file in the
same way other players do.