Author Topic: Problem with BASS_FX and tempo  (Read 19138 times)

nadia

  • Posts: 302
Problem with BASS_FX and tempo
« on: 22 Feb '09 - 21:55 »
Hi  ;D

I've found a strange problem when playing the attached wav file using a stream resampled by BASS_FX in order to manage tempo change: the problem can be easily reproduced using the "tempo.exe" sample included inside the BASS_FX zip file.

The attached WAV file contains a sequence of 4 drum beats: if you play it with Bass or WMP or Winamp you will clearly hear that all of the 4 beats have the same energy: if you play the same file using the "tempo.exe" sample of BASS_FX you will hear that the 3rd beat has less energy and, by the way, it seems that the first 2 beats have an energy higher than the original: can this glitch be corrected in some way?

Kind Regards  ;D

Nadia

(: JOBnik! :)

  • Posts: 1065
Re: Problem with BASS_FX and tempo
« Reply #1 on: 24 Feb '09 - 22:46 »
Hi ;D

Are you using the latest release of BASS_FX?
Can you please test it using older version? e.g: 2.3 or early 2.4?

nadia

  • Posts: 302
Re: Problem with BASS_FX and tempo
« Reply #2 on: 25 Feb '09 - 07:27 »
Hi ;D

Are you using the latest release of BASS_FX?
Can you please test it using older version? e.g: 2.3 or early 2.4?

Hi JOBnik!,  ;D

yes, I'm using the latest version 2.4.3.1. In version 2.3.0.3 the problem is not reproduced while in version 2.4.0.2 the problem is already there so it seems to be a regression of version 2.4.

Kind Regards  ;D

Nadia
« Last Edit: 25 Feb '09 - 15:11 by nadia »

(: JOBnik! :)

  • Posts: 1065
Re: Problem with BASS_FX and tempo
« Reply #3 on: 26 Feb '09 - 22:15 »
Hi ;D

Please test this one as it uses the most latest code from SoundTouch 1.4.1
http://www.jobnik.org/files/bass_fx.zip
« Last Edit: 26 Feb '09 - 22:21 by (: JOBnik! :) »

nadia

  • Posts: 302
Re: Problem with BASS_FX and tempo
« Reply #4 on: 27 Feb '09 - 09:39 »
Hi ;D

Please test this one as it uses the most latest code from SoundTouch 1.4.1
http://www.jobnik.org/files/bass_fx.zip

Hi  ;D

the new version simply moved the problem of a couple of seconds but the problem is still there: the problem is not there when using version 2.3.0.3 of BASS_FX so there is the possibility that something was screwed up inside the SoundTouch library: I suggest a downgrade because the difference is really noticeable.
I've attached a longer sample to the link below:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=OV43ICMI

If you play it with your Tempo.exe sample of version 2.4 you will certainly hear that not all the beats are reproduced with the same energy level.

Kind regards  ;D

Nadia

« Last Edit: 27 Feb '09 - 09:47 by nadia »

radio42

  • Posts: 4576
Re: Problem with BASS_FX and tempo
« Reply #5 on: 27 Feb '09 - 11:03 »
Note: The 'clicks/crackles' are also still there when changing the TEMPO from 0 to above, from 0 to below or from a negative to a positive value.
Seems that the new SoundTouch versions are getting worse and not better ;-)

So I guess we really need to push Oli from SoundTouch to work on these existing issues!
;-)


(: JOBnik! :)

  • Posts: 1065
Re: Problem with BASS_FX and tempo
« Reply #6 on: 27 Feb '09 - 11:29 »
Hi ;D

Nadia, are you using/changing BASS_ATTRIB_TEMPO_OPTIONS_xxx:
Code: [Select]
BASS_ATTRIB_TEMPO_OPTION_USE_QUICKALGO
BASS_ATTRIB_TEMPO_OPTION_SEQUENCE_MS
BASS_ATTRIB_TEMPO_OPTION_SEEKWINDOW_MS
BASS_ATTRIB_TEMPO_OPTION_OVERLAP_MS

I've sent an e-mail to Olli, with hope he can improve SoundTouch :)
« Last Edit: 27 Feb '09 - 11:35 by (: JOBnik! :) »

nadia

  • Posts: 302
Re: Problem with BASS_FX and tempo
« Reply #7 on: 27 Feb '09 - 11:31 »
Hi ;D

Nadia, are you using/changing BASS_ATTRIB_TEMPO_OPTIONS_xxx:
Code: [Select]
BASS_ATTRIB_TEMPO_OPTION_USE_QUICKALGO
BASS_ATTRIB_TEMPO_OPTION_SEQUENCE_MS
BASS_ATTRIB_TEMPO_OPTION_SEEKWINDOW_MS
BASS_ATTRIB_TEMPO_OPTION_OVERLAP_MS

I've sent an e-mail to Olli, with hope he can improve SoundTouch :)

Hi,  ;D

no I don't: as already mentioned, I reproduce the issue using YOUR tempo.exe sample without changing anything inside the code of the sample.

Kind Regards  ;D

Nadia

(: JOBnik! :)

  • Posts: 1065
Re: Problem with BASS_FX and tempo
« Reply #8 on: 27 Feb '09 - 11:38 »
Hi ;D

This one is downgraded to use SoundTouch 1.3:
http://www.jobnik.org/files/bass_fx-st13.zip

But this one will have the side effect you're talking about when changing tempo and not when tempo is on 0%.
As to the latest sources from SoundTouch, even when tempo is on 0% it will have that side effect... but when changing tempo
to higher value the sound is much better, than if using 1.3.

I hope Olli will fix it :)
« Last Edit: 27 Feb '09 - 12:09 by (: JOBnik! :) »

(: JOBnik! :)

  • Posts: 1065
Re: Problem with BASS_FX and tempo
« Reply #9 on: 27 Feb '09 - 13:01 »
Hi ;D

I just tested your wave file using soundstretch.exe, that is provided by Olli and with this command:

soundstretch.exe BassFx.wav BassFx-new.wav -tempo=0

the file size has changed from:
1,733,332 bytes
to
1,736,868 bytes

Just received an e-mail from Olli, he is checking it out :)

nadia

  • Posts: 302
Re: Problem with BASS_FX and tempo
« Reply #10 on: 27 Feb '09 - 13:49 »
Hi ;D

I just tested your wave file using soundstretch.exe, that is provided by Olli and with this command:

soundstretch.exe BassFx.wav BassFx-new.wav -tempo=0

the file size has changed from:
1,733,332 bytes
to
1,736,868 bytes

Just received an e-mail from Olli, he is checking it out :)

That good to hear  ;D

By the way, I've tried the attributes settings you suggested but nothing changed.

Kind Regards  ;D

Nadia

(: JOBnik! :)

  • Posts: 1065
Re: Problem with BASS_FX and tempo
« Reply #11 on: 27 Feb '09 - 19:20 »
Hi ;D

I just received fixed sources from Olli and it seems to be fine now :)
Please download and test:
http://www.jobnik.org/files/bass_fx-st142.zip

radio42

  • Posts: 4576
Re: Problem with BASS_FX and tempo
« Reply #12 on: 27 Feb '09 - 20:00 »
The "clicks" with the TEMPO changes are still in there!

nadia

  • Posts: 302
Re: Problem with BASS_FX and tempo
« Reply #13 on: 27 Feb '09 - 20:02 »
Hi ;D

I just received fixed sources from Olli and it seems to be fine now :)
Please download and test:
http://www.jobnik.org/files/bass_fx-st142.zip

Hi  ;D

this was really fast....  :o

YES... I can confirm that now the problem with beats at different energy is OK  ;D

Thanks and Kind regards

Nadia

(: JOBnik! :)

  • Posts: 1065
Re: Problem with BASS_FX and tempo
« Reply #14 on: 27 Feb '09 - 20:18 »
Hi ;D

Goooooood :)

Bernd, I know that.
I've informed Olli about this issue as well, waiting for his reply :)

radio42

  • Posts: 4576
Re: Problem with BASS_FX and tempo
« Reply #15 on: 27 Feb '09 - 21:44 »
OKi - many THX!

(: JOBnik! :)

  • Posts: 1065
Re: Problem with BASS_FX and tempo
« Reply #16 on: 28 Feb '09 - 11:44 »
Hi ;D

OKi - many THX!

You're welcome :)

Please test this one, as it should now prevent that click when changing Samplerate or Pitch:
http://www.jobnik.org/files/bass_fx-st142-noclick.zip

Note: This involves slight sound quality compromise

I will add a new attribute option so you can turn it on/off.
« Last Edit: 28 Feb '09 - 11:46 by (: JOBnik! :) »

radio42

  • Posts: 4576
Re: Problem with BASS_FX and tempo
« Reply #17 on: 28 Feb '09 - 12:31 »
Hi Jobby, yes this one is fine - no clicks!

Can you explain a bit more in detail what the exact quality degradation is due to and what compromise is involved internally.

(: JOBnik! :)

  • Posts: 1065
Re: Problem with BASS_FX and tempo
« Reply #18 on: 28 Feb '09 - 17:24 »
Hi ;D

Here's an answer from Olli:

Quote
The "fix" disallows swapping processing stage order and it affects
situations that pitch is decreased from the nominal. Please set
pitch setting to -6 step and use your golden ears to inspect if
the compromise is disturbing or not.

br. Olli

(: JOBnik! :)

  • Posts: 1065
Re: Problem with BASS_FX and tempo
« Reply #19 on: 28 Feb '09 - 21:11 »
Hi ;D

Bernd, please redownload the zipped file:
http://www.jobnik.org/files/bass_fx-st142-noclick.zip

I've now added a new BASS_ATTRIB_TEMPO_OPTION_PREVENT_CLICK
so you can turn it on/off when needed :)

radio42

  • Posts: 4576
Re: Problem with BASS_FX and tempo
« Reply #20 on: 1 Mar '09 - 12:50 »
Hi Jobby,

works like a charm.
Many THX to you and Oli !!!
Btw, I couldn't recognize any real performance or sound quality issues - so they must be very very minimal?!

(: JOBnik! :)

  • Posts: 1065
Re: Problem with BASS_FX and tempo
« Reply #21 on: 2 Mar '09 - 15:45 »
Hi ;D

Hi Jobby,

works like a charm.
Many THX to you and Oli !!!
Btw, I couldn't recognize any real performance or sound quality issues - so they must be very very minimal?!

You're welcome!
Many thanks goes to Olli, SoundTouch author, for very quick fixes :)

The Mask

  • Posts: 97
Re: Problem with BASS_FX and tempo
« Reply #22 on: 5 Mar '09 - 22:10 »
Hi JOBnik!,

I think that there are still problems with the new version. I have uploaded a few sample ac3 files so that you can hear it. You can download it from:

http://rapidshare.com/files/205794863/Test_Bass_FX_Tempo.rar.html

I have made 4 test files named:

Test no tempo.ac3                   ---> no tempo processing is done and encoded with BASS and Aften. No other DSP's.
Test Tempo version 2.4.3.1.ac3  ---> Tempo processing with bass_fx version 2.4.3.1 and encoded with BASS and Aften. No other DSP's.
Test Tempo version 2.4.3.2.ac3  ---> Tempo processing with the new bass_fx version 2.4.3.2 and encoded with BASS and Aften. No other DSP's.
Test Tempo version 2.4.3.2 with option prevent click.ac3 ---> Tempo processing with the new bass_fx version 2.4.3.2 with the option prevent click set to TRUE and encoded with BASS and Aften. No other DSP's.

The problems that I found:
1) The 3 files which are processed with the Tempo option have different sizes, what is the cause of this?

2) The 2 files processed with version 2.4.3.2 in comparing with the one processed with version 2.4.3.1 have a different duration. The first 2 have a duration of 1 minute and 22 seconds and the one processed with the old version has a duration of 1 minute and 20 seconds. The original file has a duration of 1 minute and 24 seconds. All arre processed with the tempo set to 4,27093760427094 (NTSC to PAL conversion / 23.976 to 25 fps). Which one has the correct duration?

3) When I set the option to prevent click in the latest version I still hear some cracking in the audio compared to the file with no tempo. It is not so loud as with the one processed with the option not set but it is still there. So it is not completely fixed.

4) The old version doesn't have cracking in it so with the new adjustments the cracking is introduced and not fixed.

(: JOBnik! :)

  • Posts: 1065
Re: Problem with BASS_FX and tempo
« Reply #23 on: 6 Mar '09 - 11:05 »
Hi ;D

The issues we were talking in this thread were:
1. When Tempo is on 0%, the duration would change (2.4.3.1)
2. When changing Samplerate/Pitch, there was a click when changed above/below original

Only these 2 issues above were fixed in 2.4.3.2:
1. When Tempo is on 0%, the duration should be intact
2. To prevent click when changing Samplerate/Pitch above/below original, I've added a new attribute option

The duration of 1:22, should be correct as you've changed tempo to +4.27% (with version 2.4.3.2)
You've compared files with No Tempo (1:24) and with Tempo changed (1:20 (2.4.3.1) and 1:22 (2.4.3.2)) of course there will be duration change, as the sound is faster than original.

Please also test Tempo only with stereo/mono files, without BASSMIX

The Mask

  • Posts: 97
Re: Problem with BASS_FX and tempo
« Reply #24 on: 6 Mar '09 - 15:19 »
I will check out the Tempo without Bass_Mix but why is the duration with version 2.4.3.1 shorter then with 2.4.3.2 when on all files a Tempo of 4.27% is used and the input file was the one with a duration of 1 min. and 24 sec. So in short why is there a 2 second difference between 2.4.3.1 and 2.4.3.2 when both used the original file (1 min. 24 sec) as input?

Also I used the same version of Bass_Mix on all and no cracking with the old version so something is not correct with the new version of Tempo I assume, but I will test further tonight.

By the way I thought that 1 min 20 sec should be the correct duration when you do a tempo change of +4,27%. I always thought when you do a speedup of 4,27% then the duration calculation is 100/(100+4,27)*84 = 80 seconds (1 minute and 20 seconds) and not 82 seconds?