Author Topic: Misspelling of 'color'  (Read 65465 times)

Ralesk

  • Posts: 654
Re: Misspelling of 'color'
« Reply #25 on: 23 May '03 - 14:33 »
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Well, according to the Microsoft Encarta (which is American), "visulisation" is spelt "visualization" and "equaliser" is spelt "equalizer" but is also listed in the dictionary with the "s" version.

Oh, and the words "visulization" and "equalizer" are apparently:



You point being...?  It IS American, so it will of course use -ize and -ization, duh! :P

- - - - -

Re: BASIC

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/BASIC_programming_language

- - - - -

Philidor:  I don't think I have understood what you were about, sorry. :-/

Zarggg

  • Posts: 1242
Re: Misspelling of 'color'
« Reply #26 on: 23 May '03 - 15:17 »
Ralesk, when was Thomas E. Kurtz's document written, and why would you trust him over Eric S. Raymond? ;)

Ralesk

  • Posts: 654
Re: Misspelling of 'color'
« Reply #27 on: 23 May '03 - 15:51 »
I have heard about Kemény György from more than this one source.
And as you can see, Dijkstra did get involved in the whole thing a couple of years later than it was invented. :P

Anyway, Wikipedia is usually well "moderated", so bullshit doesn't appear ;D

Torkell

  • Posts: 1169
Re: Misspelling of 'color'
« Reply #28 on: 23 May '03 - 18:46 »
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We could have fun with backronyms for BASS :)

Basic All-purpose Sound System (to distort BASIC)
Balls-on Accurate Surround Sound (to copy Ian's description of modlue playback)

Hey - I've just realised BASIC is recursive:
 BASIC
 BASIC All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code
 BASIC All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code
 BASIC All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code
 BASIC All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code
... and so on ad infinitum

Tsorovan

  • Posts: 1247
Re: Misspelling of 'color'
« Reply #29 on: 23 May '03 - 19:56 »
Did I mention recursive (or I guess self-referential is the proper epithet) acronyms is the bane of human existence?

How about?
GRAANFSUT! - GRAANFSUT! Recursive Acronyms Are Not Fucking Funny! Stop Using Them.

Not dissing you, BoggyB, just the retards using that particular naming convention (unless you find them funny. Do you? Huh? HUH? :). Aaaaaaargh, I get so frustrated and wound up I need to punch my face with something. Or some other guy's face. Sorry for that violent rant. There's a lot I don't like.

Ian @ un4seen

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 24684
Re: Misspelling of 'color'
« Reply #30 on: 24 May '03 - 16:34 »
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I really have nothing against "color".  You can't really argue there's a universal correct spelling - it's just the side of the fence you come from.  I noticed it was spelled "colour" in the xmp-skin.txt, but "color" in the skinconfig.txt.

Pretty much all tag/config systems seem to use the "color" spelling, so I figured I'd use that in the skin config, while using the "colour" spelling in the docs.

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We could have fun with backronyms for BASS :)

http://un4seen.com/YaBB.cgi?board=bass&action=display&num=1036418832#12

;D

Olego

  • Posts: 557
GNU
« Reply #31 on: 26 May '03 - 06:39 »
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Did I mention recursive (or I guess self-referential is the proper epithet) acronyms is the bane of human existence?


So I take it you don't like GNU?  (GNU's Not Unix.  ;D)

~Olego~

Torkell

  • Posts: 1169
Re: Misspelling of 'color'
« Reply #32 on: 26 May '03 - 21:46 »
Or LAME? (LAME Ain't an MP3 Encoder)

Hold on a minute... did I just say MP3?
*contemplates possible flame war over audio codecs*
*warms up the flamethrower* Might as well join in ;D

Zarggg

  • Posts: 1242
Re: Misspelling of 'color'
« Reply #33 on: 27 May '03 - 15:37 »
What flameware?  Ogg Vorbis is the best.  Everyone knows that. ::)

Pike84

  • Posts: 1398
Re: Misspelling of 'color'
« Reply #34 on: 27 May '03 - 19:40 »
Everyone should know, Ogg is the best at from low to mid quality music, but actually mpc (MusePack) beats it at bitrates of around >160 :).
« Last Edit: 27 May '03 - 19:41 by Pike84 »

Tsorovan

  • Posts: 1247
Re: Misspelling of 'color'
« Reply #35 on: 27 May '03 - 20:24 »
Olego: I don't like the name no, but it was amongst the first ever so I can give it some leeway there. The followers are the worst, like LAME, yes. That won't stop me from using LAME though :)

Zarggg

  • Posts: 1242
Re: Misspelling of 'color'
« Reply #36 on: 27 May '03 - 22:57 »

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Everyone should know, Ogg is the best at from low to mid quality music, but actually mpc (MusePack) beats it at bitrates of around >160 :).


When Ian has XMPlay support MusePack natively, I'll consider looking into it. ::)

Tsorovan

  • Posts: 1247
Re: Misspelling of 'color'
« Reply #37 on: 28 May '03 - 01:10 »
I'm all for improvement and progress, but I can't really see the point in switching formats myself, unless they prove to have significant benefits (say, 40-50% lower filesize than/identical quality to LAME 256kbps CBR). And OGG Vorbis and MusePack aren't really there. All in all, MPC is preferable to OGG though, IMO, but it's such a minor improvement over MP3 it doesn't matter much. OGG can do multichannel tracks but ah well, no use for that myself. Keep working though, I would like to see a worthy successor soon.

Pike84

  • Posts: 1398
Re: Misspelling of 'color'
« Reply #38 on: 28 May '03 - 01:41 »
Just thought I'd go through your post here:
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I'm all for improvement and progress, but I can't really see the point in switching formats myself, unless they prove to have significant benefits (say, 40-50% lower filesize than/identical quality to LAME 256kbps CBR)

Well, I can't really see the point in not switching the formats, if it's clear that one format (Ogg/mpc) beats another (mp3). There may not be point in changing all your music to the new format, but why not support it in future? I for one make sure that I'm ripping with the best quality-size -ratio (by the way, why are you using CBR and not VBR/ABR?).

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And OGG Vorbis and MusePack aren't really there.

Hmm, I don't know if I see your point here.. Do you mean that they aren't popular or supported? For an individual using XMPlay with the plugin, it shouldn't be an issue.

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All in all, MPC is preferable to OGG though, IMO, but it's such a minor improvement over MP3 it doesn't matter much.

It's all relative - for me, it matters enough to support it :).

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OGG can do multichannel tracks but ah well, no use for that myself.

Not using them myself..

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Keep working though, I would like to see a worthy successor soon.

I don't think I need to look further ;).

[edit]Oh, and if you want some more info about the different (stream) music file formats, here's a good site: http://www.modatic.net. For lazy people, here's a link to lossy audio formats page for comparison: http://www.modatic.net/audio/lossy_audio_formats.php.




« Last Edit: 28 May '03 - 02:26 by Pike84 »

Philidor11

  • Posts: 151
Re: Misspelling of 'color'
« Reply #39 on: 28 May '03 - 02:30 »
MP3 is the standard.  You know that all software and devices are going to be able to work with it, and that any player is going to be able to handle it.
In principle, I like lossless compression best for the sound quality, but my .ape experiments are only for this pc.
For Ogg Vorbis, which is also lossy, the quality seems lower than MP3 at the high bitrates I prefer, though I'll admit I haven't tried that many samples.  If anybody has a Baroque or Bluegrass or Beethoven or Moody Blues or Broadway tune they really like, I'm willing to experiment further.
At any rate, realistically, most pc files should be in MP3 for now.  At least, I expect, we can agree to avoid wma.  

Pike84

  • Posts: 1398
Re: Misspelling of 'color'
« Reply #40 on: 28 May '03 - 03:08 »
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MP3 is the standard.  You know that all software and devices are going to be able to work with it, and that any player is going to be able to handle it.
In principle, I like lossless compression best for the sound quality, but my .ape experiments are only for this pc.
For Ogg Vorbis, which is also lossy, the quality seems lower than MP3 at the high bitrates I prefer, though I'll admit I haven't tried that many samples.  If anybody has a Baroque or Bluegrass or Beethoven or Moody Blues or Broadway tune they really like, I'm willing to experiment further.
At any rate, realistically, most pc files should be in MP3 for now.  At least, I expect, we can agree to avoid wma.  

Yes, mp3 is the standard - unfortunately. It is very commercial and heavily patented format, and I think we should prefer Ogg over mp3, just because Ogg is open and free. Besides, I wouldn't think Ogg loses to mp3 even with the higher bitrates, although I haven't tested much. However, the fact is, that mp3 doesn't exactly shine at that level, either. If you don't trust Ogg, then use mpc, because it is undeniably the best encoder with high bitrates. It's also free, tho not open source.

Mp3 has also other downsides, like bad handling of transients (sharp impulses, drumbeats, percussions etc.) and the bad encoders, that many not so knowledgable people unsuspectingly use.

So I for one will surely not support mp3, since there are better ones around. The fact that mp3 is the standard, doesn't affect my personal music listening much. I will always rip my music to either Ogg or mpc, and encourage other people to do likewise :).

Also I must add, that Ogg's popularity is growing all the time. Even now, most of the new games seem to be using Ogg, mainly because it's free, but of course because it sounds good too. I'm sure mp3 will eventually go down. How long it takes, I'm not so sure about.

Philidor11

  • Posts: 151
Re: Misspelling of 'color'
« Reply #41 on: 28 May '03 - 04:05 »
I'd never heard of mpc before tonight, but I ran into a reference on a link in a prior message that said mpc was best at high bit rates.  So I downloaded the mpc encoder and MPC batch encoder.
For the test I selected the Tchaikovsky Rococo Variations, great performance by Rostropovich (never heard a bad performance by Rostropovich) and von Karajan on DG.  Anyway, ripped to wav with CDex.  I also downloaded the XMPlay plug-in for mpc.
The wav was 207 megs.  Using CDex again, I converted to mp3 with LAME.  18:54, 24.6 megs, VBR 160-224, came out at 182.  I used MP3-Gain.  Nothing comparable that I know of for mpc.  The normalization blats in a few spots because I merged the wav using Wave Merge (sic); should have used MP3 Gain first, with the album setting.
Anyway, then I converted the wav to mpc using the xtreme setting for comparability, came to 28.4 megs, 20:34(?), and listened to both.  The MP3 wins easily, a lot richer; the mpc seems muted by comparison.
Admittedly, the difference may have been because of MP3 Gain or because of the plug-in.  But that's the point; you can get quality software for MP3.
Sometime I'll check Ogg on the same wav, but MP3 is still champ, for me.  I know what you mean about free, but I didn't pay for any of this software anyway, so to me it seems equivalent.
Interesting stuff.

Torkell

  • Posts: 1169
Re: Misspelling of 'color'
« Reply #42 on: 28 May '03 - 10:26 »
FYI: The Unreal series of games used to use a packaged MOD format (UMX) for music, but the latest version (UT2k3, and probably Unreal 2) use OGGs.

Having many different formats of music file on my computer, I've come to the conclusion that a lossless compression for MO3 is the best, with OGG if the source is not available in MOD format. I'm planning on converting all my MODs to MO3, using the lossless compression as it can halve the filesize at the best quality setting.

Zarggg

  • Posts: 1242
Re: Misspelling of 'color'
« Reply #43 on: 28 May '03 - 14:14 »
Ogg does it for me. I used to use the --r3mix switch for MP3 encoding (which produces massive, archive-quality encoding). Now, I use 128 for my nominal in Ogg. Both sound good enough for me (I'm not broadcasting anything... Yet), and I never use a nominal higher than 128. I don't really need it.

Pike84

  • Posts: 1398
Re: Misspelling of 'color'
« Reply #44 on: 28 May '03 - 17:04 »
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The MP3 wins easily, a lot richer; the mpc seems muted by comparison.

I don't know how you managed to hear mp3 better, but there's a considerable flaw in this test of yours: instead of comparing these formats to each other, you should have compared them to the original (in this case a cd, wasn't it?). It doesn't matter if mp3 sounds any "richer" or whatever - if it sounds different from the original, it's flawed. I suggest you do another test like this, and then report, which one of the formats sounds closer to the original.

As for my experiences, I just ripped a couple of cds, then packed them to mpc, with the standard setting. I can't hear the difference from the originals ;).
« Last Edit: 28 May '03 - 17:16 by Pike84 »

Zarggg

  • Posts: 1242
Re: Misspelling of 'color'
« Reply #45 on: 28 May '03 - 21:07 »

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FYI: The Unreal series of games used to use a packaged MOD format (UMX) for music, but the latest version (UT2k3, and probably Unreal 2) use OGGs.


UMX is actually a form of Impulse Tracker, IIRC.

Philidor11

  • Posts: 151
Re: Misspelling of 'color'
« Reply #46 on: 29 May '03 - 00:25 »
I was confirming the statement that mpc was the best format for high bitrate (lossy) rips.  May have been true at one time, but one admittedly quick test didn't support it.  Particularly with the helper software now available for mp3.
As for comparison to the original, I think a ripped CD sounds better than the original, particularly with a player like XMPlay.  This isn't the same result I'd get with dedicated sound equipment, just concerns listening at the computer.
Agreed?

Brightguy

  • Posts: 252
Re: Misspelling of 'color'
« Reply #47 on: 29 May '03 - 01:48 »
BoggyB was right when he predicted there could be an audio codec war...  I guess I would have to say I'm neutral. :D

By the way...
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Olego: I don't like the name no, but it was amongst the first ever so I can give it some leeway there. The followers are the worst, like LAME, yes. That won't stop me from using LAME though :)

Ten thousandth post on the Un4seen forums!!! :o

Tsorovan

  • Posts: 1247
Re: Misspelling of 'color'
« Reply #48 on: 29 May '03 - 02:32 »
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Well, I can't really see the point in not switching the formats, if it's clear that one format (Ogg/mpc) beats another (mp3).

As I said, the (current) improvements are negligible and not worth due to compability issues (friends and other people not having OGG/MPC-capable players for instance -- yeah it's their fault but it becomes your problem).

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There may not be point in changing all your music to the new format, but why not support it in future? I for one make sure that I'm ripping with the best quality-size -ratio (by the way, why are you using CBR and not VBR/ABR?).

Re-encoding a lossless format will NEVER happen for me.

I use CBR because it feels more reliable, I don't like the added uncertainty factor that VBR adds, and as I'm a quality freak, when I tested with VBR, most frame sizes stayed at the CBR level I'm using anyway. ABR is total crap and shouldn't be allowed to exist.

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Hmm, I don't know if I see your point here.. Do you mean that they aren't popular or supported? For an individual using XMPlay with the plugin, it shouldn't be an issue.

I mean the improvements are more or less negligible (i.e. "the codecs aren't there yet -- in the future when everything's wonderful and perfect"). OGG isn't really that much smaller size-wise. At crappy, low bitrates yes. But I don't use those ear-killing bitrates. It has other merits though, like license-free and multichannel, but none of that is anything I care about -- yet.

It all boils down to wheter the improvements reach such a level that it's worth all the hassle. Simple.

------

Oh, AFAIK, UMX is the original file, which can be XM, S3M, IT, FAR, MOD and some other, more obscure formats, inside an Unreal Package file.
However, it was impossible to have several mods inside that package, so it might've just been a custom header added to the original file, I never had to work much with the Package format myself (or it could've been a limitation in UnrealED/UCC, but that seems weird).

Philidor11

  • Posts: 151
Re: Misspelling of 'color'
« Reply #49 on: 29 May '03 - 06:08 »
Tsorovan wrote:
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As I said, the (current) improvements are negligible and not worth due to compability issues (friends and other people not having OGG/MPC-capable players for instance -- yeah it's their fault but it becomes your problem).

Yes, mp3 is the standard.

He also wrote:
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I use CBR because it feels more reliable, I don't like the added uncertainty factor that VBR adds, and as I'm a quality freak, when I tested with VBR, most frame sizes stayed at the CBR level I'm using anyway. ABR is total crap and shouldn't be allowed to exist.

If I remember correctly, I think you said you're using 256 CBR.  Does every part of the music require that level?
mpc is entirely VBR.  Watching it play, I saw how much the BR jumped around.  If you went from a 224 low and topped at 256 or even 320, couldn't you save file size with VBR?  Have you tried it?
My equipment doesn't allow me to hear much better than I get from a 160-224 VBR on the pc, and I do save on file size.