Author Topic: Looking to encode with Vorbis  (Read 7666 times)

Grindill

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Looking to encode with Vorbis
« on: 30 Sep '06 - 23:23 »
I'm completely new to Vorbis here, so bear with me...

I downloaded a simple drag-and-drop utility for encoding with Vorbis called oggdropXPd. Well, being used to encoding MP3 files with LAME, I figured that managing bitrates was generally a similar process. However, regardless of how strict I specify oggdrop to be with bitrate quality, it continues to apply an alternating bitrate to every file. Is there simply no way to specify a strict, solid, unchanging rate like with LAME?

Also, can anyone recommend how I should adjust these settings for optimal quality? Is there any sort of standard setting used by most people? I would hate to over-bloat all my files when it's not going to make any real difference in the first place.

Thanks for any advice.

Jace

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Re: Looking to encode with Vorbis
« Reply #1 on: 1 Oct '06 - 07:15 »
Cannot say that I'm a pro with these things, to be honest.
But at least in oggdropXPd you can choose the 'CBR' option. While encoding, I noticed it reported that the kbps did fluctuate very slightly, but well within 1kbps range. =)

Normally I encode my Oggs with standard quality mode (VBR) at -q7 (~224kbps). It's been good enough for me and hasn't caused harddiskspace-panics. ;D
(Actually any Ogg-encoding I do is done by CDex... The rare times I need to encode a wav, oggdrop it is.)

Sebastian_Mares

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Re: Looking to encode with Vorbis
« Reply #2 on: 1 Oct '06 - 07:45 »
Vorbis does not support CBR encoding since it's a VBR encoder only. Personally, I recommend using 4.25 quality since it's transparent for most files and most people.

Grindill

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Re: Looking to encode with Vorbis
« Reply #3 on: 1 Oct '06 - 15:47 »
From the comparisons I've seen, the bitrate standards between MP3 and OGG are entirely different. i.e., 192 kbps with MP3 would be the standard for CD-like quality, while 192 with OGG would be like having 224 (or higher) with an MP3 file, so about 160 (q5, I think?) would be the equivalent to CD-like quality for an OGG file.

I was debating between using q5 or q6, but I'm not sure how much of a difference it will make, or if I should be more specific with the settings. Vorbis gives you a lot of options when encoding, so I'm having a rough time deciding on what to do.

Dotpitch

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Re: Looking to encode with Vorbis
« Reply #4 on: 1 Oct '06 - 17:09 »
I was debating between using q5 or q6, but I'm not sure how much of a difference it will make, or if I should be more specific with the settings. Vorbis gives you a lot of options when encoding, so I'm having a rough time deciding on what to do.
Then just take q 5.5  ;D. For simply listening to music, you can go down to q 2 (96 kb/s). For archiving CD's, I'd use q 7 (224 kb/s) or 8. LAME has a lot more options when it comes to quality settings than oggenc. Most of the time, setting only the quality will deliver a proper file ;).

Zarggg

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Re: Looking to encode with Vorbis
« Reply #5 on: 1 Oct '06 - 19:05 »
Based on what I have read, q5 using aoTuV's tuning is (reasonably) transparent. That's the setting I use, at least.

Torkell

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Re: Looking to encode with Vorbis
« Reply #6 on: 1 Oct '06 - 21:16 »
I personally use q6 for my CDs, using the reference libraries with either PlexTools or oggenc.exe. I think I decided on that by aiming for whatever q-level gave around 192kbps. I did however do some back-of-the-envelope listening tests a month or two ago, and found that while I can hear the difference in quality at q-1 (thats minus one), it actually still sounds rather good. It's nothing like the hideous underwater metally warbling you get with mp3, and seems to me to be more like an old tape.

Good luck though finding the official Win32 compile (if such exists) of the reference encoder. I had to compile it myself, and even then it needed some tinkering with the sources and several libraries in mystical undocumented locations to work.
« Last Edit: 1 Oct '06 - 21:19 by BoggyB »

Sebastian_Mares

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Grindill

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Re: Looking to encode with Vorbis
« Reply #8 on: 2 Oct '06 - 20:10 »
Okay, I did a test with -q 6. In question, I ripped a track from Enigma's "Voyageur" CD (Track 1, "From East to West") using GoldWave (v5.08) and encoded the rip with FLAC at maximum setting. Then, I used oggdropXPd V1.8.9 - lilvorbis auToVr1 at -q 6 to encode the FLAC file. (I have no idea what any of this means, by the way) Going back and forth between the FLAC rip and the encoded Vorbis version, I could notice some lack of quality -- mostly during the quiet parts.

I should mention, however, that I have very sensitive hearing. This could be the reason why the quality seems slightly off.

Zarggg

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Re: Looking to encode with Vorbis
« Reply #9 on: 6 Oct '06 - 00:09 »
Honestly... If you have very sensitive hearing, the best option is to just buy a bigger hard-drive and encode everything with FLAC. FLAC can even be contained in an Ogg container, if you really want to have the .ogg extension. ;)

Of course, I'm fully aware of the fact that I don't have sensitive hearing. As far as I'm concerned, a 128kb/s LAME-encoded MP3 at 44kHz sampling sounds exactly the same as the original.
« Last Edit: 6 Oct '06 - 00:13 by Zarggg »

Grindill

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Re: Looking to encode with Vorbis
« Reply #10 on: 6 Oct '06 - 06:12 »
I sure wish I had enough gigs to store that many FLACs. :P

In the meantime, I'll just have to play around with the Vorbis settings myself and do some comparisons. Maybe I'll be able to tailor something to my liking.

Thanks for the help, guys.