Author Topic: BassVideo  (Read 340505 times)

MB_SOFT

  • Posts: 260
Re: BassVideo
« Reply #850 on: 25 Oct '09 - 02:32 »
Kenshin can do everything he wants. He's not working for you, he's not payed by you.
Your post is unfair and inappropriate

Chris

  • Posts: 1810
Re: BassVideo
« Reply #851 on: 25 Oct '09 - 11:43 »
@MB_SOFT
I agree with you
abolut correct !!!
Cheers Chris

RevG

  • Posts: 454
Re: BassVideo
« Reply #852 on: 25 Oct '09 - 18:11 »
I don't think its ever coming.  He hasn't responded in weeks.  They really need to pull the plug on BassVideo completely.  It's making a bad name for the whole Bass name.  The guy (kenshin) has written it in Delphi, which is no longer supported which means a x64 version will never come. He's talked about converting it to C++ but that still hasn't happened, along with numerous other things kenshin has never delivered on.  It's sad because I believed in him and addded video support to my app.  Now, if I want to release a 64 bit compatible version, I'm going to have to pull video support from the app and it's gong to piss people off.  Kenshin has really pissed me off and it's a shame my customers have to suffer for his laziness.  I'm praying to God that the folks here at Bass pull the plug and hand over the reigns to someone who will actually do some work and actually create a final product that works and has an x64 compatible version as well, and doesn't leave people hanging for months on empty promises.

With Microsoft pushing 64 bit over 32 bit in just about every store you can buy computers from, it's very crucial that 64 bit versions of software are available, and this is not the time for kenshin to be saying "I'm too busy at the moment".  If kenshin worked for me, he would have been fired months ago.

This is really not fair to Kenshin. He has worked very hard on this software library. Don't you think he wants his software library to be complete and working? Of course he does, in fact he probably wants that more than anyone else on these forums.

People can get very busy and sometimes life can throw curve balls at you and no one knows his current situation. He may not be active on the forums currently, but that doesn't necessarily mean his project is dead, maybe it is just delayed?

That being said, I would be interested in helping out with this project in anyway that I can providing Kenshin would be willing to allow that to happen. I could help rewrite the library in c++ as that is the language I program in on a regular basis.

Anyways, Kenshin I hope all is well and your work is still appreciated by many.

Cheers,
Greg

Latch

  • Posts: 90
Re: BassVideo
« Reply #853 on: 25 Oct '09 - 20:56 »
This is really not fair to Kenshin. He has worked very hard on this software library.

Worked hard?  No he hasn't!  I've been a programmer since 1977 and I know pretty well how long stuff takes to complete.  By my estimate, Kenshin works on this in the spare time, and even then it appears to only be when he feels like it, and he doesn't seem to "feel like it" very often.  This should have been finished last year.  He promised an update in the spring to be finished by late summer.  He's got real businesses relying on his word and he keeps breaking his word!  You don't find lying offensive?  For God's sake, he's breaking one of the ten commandments and you all act like you feel sorry for the guy.

I've been using third party components for decades, and this is without a doubt the worst experience I've ever had with a third party component.  Not only has it never functioned in an acceptable manner (in any version), but it's also the first time a developer flat out lies about his release schedule on a regular basis.  You guys can pity him all you want, but the guy is a loser in my book.

If your version of Windows never completely worked and Microsoft kept lying about when a fix was coming, you would all want Bill Gates head on a platter.  Why is Kenshin so deserving of this unbelievable amount of patience?  When will you all start agreeing?  2010?  2011? 2012 and still nothing?  I guess it all boils down to how long you're willing to wait.  Mark my word, 2010 will get here before a decent working copy of BassVideo will, and at his rate, it will be 2012 before a 64 bit version arrives, but most likely he will promise its completion a year before it actually gets here.

Believe me, I would love to eat my words.  In this case, I really hope I'm NOT right, but my gut is telling me that I've wasted a lot of time implementing video support in my app which heavily relies on Bass, and when I have no choice but to pull video support in order to release a 64 bit version (which I will have to do soon in order to keep up with my competition), my customers will be pissed at me, and I will feel like a jerk for ever believing in kenshin.

Kenshin, please prove me wrong.  Get off your ass and make a liar out of me!  I'd love nothing more.

MB_SOFT

  • Posts: 260
Re: BassVideo
« Reply #854 on: 25 Oct '09 - 21:12 »
Latch, if you treat like this a freeware developer, i can't imagine how do you treat a shareware or commercial developer! You have no right to pretend anything from Kenshin and if i'm Kenshin now i have a good reason to stop developing for ungrateful people like you.

RevG

  • Posts: 454
Re: BassVideo
« Reply #855 on: 25 Oct '09 - 23:56 »
This is really not fair to Kenshin. He has worked very hard on this software library.

Worked hard?  No he hasn't!  I've been a programmer since 1977 and I know pretty well how long stuff takes to complete.  By my estimate, Kenshin works on this in the spare time, and even then it appears to only be when he feels like it, and he doesn't seem to "feel like it" very often.  This should have been finished last year.  He promised an update in the spring to be finished by late summer.  He's got real businesses relying on his word and he keeps breaking his word!  You don't find lying offensive?  For God's sake, he's breaking one of the ten commandments and you all act like you feel sorry for the guy.

I've been using third party components for decades, and this is without a doubt the worst experience I've ever had with a third party component.  Not only has it never functioned in an acceptable manner (in any version), but it's also the first time a developer flat out lies about his release schedule on a regular basis.  You guys can pity him all you want, but the guy is a loser in my book.

If your version of Windows never completely worked and Microsoft kept lying about when a fix was coming, you would all want Bill Gates head on a platter.  Why is Kenshin so deserving of this unbelievable amount of patience?  When will you all start agreeing?  2010?  2011? 2012 and still nothing?  I guess it all boils down to how long you're willing to wait.  Mark my word, 2010 will get here before a decent working copy of BassVideo will, and at his rate, it will be 2012 before a 64 bit version arrives, but most likely he will promise its completion a year before it actually gets here.

Believe me, I would love to eat my words.  In this case, I really hope I'm NOT right, but my gut is telling me that I've wasted a lot of time implementing video support in my app which heavily relies on Bass, and when I have no choice but to pull video support in order to release a 64 bit version (which I will have to do soon in order to keep up with my competition), my customers will be pissed at me, and I will feel like a jerk for ever believing in kenshin.

Kenshin, please prove me wrong.  Get off your ass and make a liar out of me!  I'd love nothing more.

So you think the BassVideo dll wrote itself? You think all the research and development that went into creating it was magically written by the code fairy while kenshin was sleeping? You think the documentation for this library fell out of the sky?

If this is the "worst experience" you have ever had with a third party library then consider yourself lucky. I have been developing for only 11 years and I have had much worse experiences.

I find it hard to believe that you have been a developer for 32 years and yet have absolutely no clue how much knowledge and effort it takes to create a video add-on for BASS. Trust me, I have tried to create a video add-on for BASS just like Kenshin and I still have not successfully been able to accomplish this. If you have 32 years experience and think that it is so easy then why don't you step up to the plate a create one yourself? We're all waiting.

Cheers,
Greg

Latch

  • Posts: 90
Re: BassVideo
« Reply #856 on: 26 Oct '09 - 02:49 »
Latch, if you treat like this a freeware developer, i can't imagine how do you treat a shareware or commercial developer! You have no right to pretend anything from Kenshin and if i'm Kenshin now i have a good reason to stop developing for ungrateful people like you.

It's not freeware.  Here's the link to PAY for BassVideo

https://secure.shareit.com/shareit/checkout.html?productid=300269884&js=-1

I've already paid a couple thousand dollars (US) for Bass and Bass.Net licenses, and planned on gladly paying for the BassVideo license once it actually worked as described.  Kenshin DOES have an financial incentive to finish what he started, and since he is charging for it, it leads people like me to believe he was going to finish.  If it was freeware, I wouldn't have taken it seriously enough to add video support to our app because I know freeware authors have no incentive to finish what they started.

I think your logic is completely backwards.  Paid products should have expectations, not freeware.  Paid products SHOULD hear loud complaints when they fail to deliver and they deserve every bit of it.  Kenshin is no different.  I'm sure he's collected money from people already and that is where he really failed.  He shouldn't have started charging for it if he didn't plan to finish it in "reasonable" amount of time.

Latch

  • Posts: 90
Re: BassVideo
« Reply #857 on: 26 Oct '09 - 03:20 »
So you think the BassVideo dll wrote itself? You think all the research and development that went into creating it was magically written by the code fairy while kenshin was sleeping? You think the documentation for this library fell out of the sky?

If this is the "worst experience" you have ever had with a third party library then consider yourself lucky. I have been developing for only 11 years and I have had much worse experiences.

I find it hard to believe that you have been a developer for 32 years and yet have absolutely no clue how much knowledge and effort it takes to create a video add-on for BASS. Trust me, I have tried to create a video add-on for BASS just like Kenshin and I still have not successfully been able to accomplish this. If you have 32 years experience and think that it is so easy then why don't you step up to the plate a create one yourself? We're all waiting.

Cheers,
Greg

Believe me, if I knew C++, I would have gladly written it myself.  I'm a VB.Net developer, and at 41 years old with a great career and business developing .Net apps, I've got no incentive to learn an entire new language.  I do know enough about windows to know that what he's done so far isn't as much work as you think it is.  His code is simply making calls to already built Windows GUI libraries.  None of his code actually does the work of displaying or playing videos.  Windows and Windows Media is handling 99% of the work.  He just knows which calls to make.  Why do you think you need to install codec packs to make it work?  The codecs decompress the video and Windows plays them.  He's just written the links between the two.  I guess that's why it's been frustrating me so much because I know he hasn't been working night and day to get this finished.  From where I stand, Kenshin appears to be a very novice coder who is slowly learning how to do this, and I think the reason he's always saying he's "very busy" is that he's still learning, and/or he's working on other projects to pay his bills.  Either way, its obvious that this isn't a big priority for him.  His poor english skills are part of the problem I'm sure.  He's having to read documentation about Bass and Windows calls, which I know are mostly in english, and I'm sure it's a slow process for him.

I remember when I was a novice programmer, and I do remember the long hours of frustration not knowing half of what you're reading.  Believe me, I can relate, but what I did NOT do when I was a novice programmer was to lie to people about what I was able to accomplish, which is EXACTLY what he's doing.  I added the bassvideo component to our app last year.  Since then, nothing has improved.  His release dates have not been met, and he continues to lie about them.  I love the Bass library.  The idea of an licensible complete audio library is what made our latest product possible.  Bass, Bass.Net, and all its add-ons are all top notch and very well written and my hat is off to all the guys who've worked on it.  Kenshin, on the other hand, fits in here like a square peg in a round hole.  He's no professional like the rest of the guys here and neither is his work.  Bass, on this site, calls this library a "professional" audio component library, and it is.  BassVideo is not.  It could be, but it's author just isn't up to the task and he's consistently proved it.  At this point, those of you who keep saying "keep up the god work kenshin" are only making it worse.  You're making him believe that his extremely slow progress is acceptable.  Well, it may be to you, but it's not to me, and I think I can speak for my thousands of customers around the world who are waiting for a 64 bit version of our app but are just as frustrated as me because we are ALL waiting on this novice programmer named kenshin.  ALL of the other pieces are ready to go, our app code, the bass library, and all the other components are ALL ready to be assembled into a 64 bit version, but we are all at a standstill waiting for a guy who keeps saying "I'm too busy".  I'm not too busy.  The guys here at Bass obviously aren't too busy.  We are all getting our work done except for kenshin.  He is falling WAY behind and you people who keep blowing sunshine up his butt aren't helping with your supportive messages.  He's failling miserably and the guys here at Bass, if they're as smart as they appear, WILL eventually drop him and his broken plugin.  I'm just saying it's time to get the ball rolling now.  Let a decent C++ programmer step up to the plate and create what we need and stop waiting for someone who obviously can't finish things accurately or on time.

RevG

  • Posts: 454
Re: BassVideo
« Reply #858 on: 26 Oct '09 - 04:32 »
Believe me, if I knew C++, I would have gladly written it myself.  I'm a VB.Net developer, and at 41 years old with a great career and business developing .Net apps, I've got no incentive to learn an entire new language.  I do know enough about windows to know that what he's done so far isn't as much work as you think it is.  His code is simply making calls to already built Windows GUI libraries.  None of his code actually does the work of displaying or playing videos.  Windows and Windows Media is handling 99% of the work.  He just knows which calls to make.  Why do you think you need to install codec packs to make it work?  The codecs decompress the video and Windows plays them.  He's just written the links between the two.

Wrong.

You said so yourself that you don't code in c++, so I have to assume that you have never written an application in C++ using the DirectShow API. Therefore I think it is fair to say that you do not know enough about what is involved to determine whether or not what kenshin has done is a lot of work or not.

I can tell you first hand as a c++ developer who has attempted to accomplish what kenshin has done so far that it is FAR MORE work than you can imagine. It requires much more ability than just making a few API calls. There is a reason why there are only a handful of professional dj applications available that can do video mixing properly and that is because it is very very difficult to accomplish.

You said you are a VB.NET developer and as a developer who has coded using both .NET and c++/WIN32 (as well as many other languages) I can tell you that .NET makes a developers life much easier. It has a ridiculously huge set of classes/API calls that do a tremendous amount of work for the developer. So I can understand why you might think Kenshin's work is easier than it is, but unfortunately developing using the raw WIN32 API and DirectShow without all the hand holding that .NET does for you is far more complex than you realize.

As far as blaming Kenshin for promises that you made to your clients, that is your own doing. You should never promise anything to your clients without having it in your hands first. Have you ever heard of the saying "Don't count your chickens before they hatch"?

Cheers,
Greg

Latch

  • Posts: 90
Re: BassVideo
« Reply #859 on: 26 Oct '09 - 04:48 »

You should never promise anything to your clients without having it in your hands first.
 

So it's OK for Kenshin to do it?

OdUser

  • Guest
Re: BassVideo
« Reply #860 on: 26 Oct '09 - 05:03 »
@Latch
I have finished my work for Bass closed for such people like you
@RevG
You re talking about you.
You use the work of others without authorization .. That's called stealing it

With Kenshin
Kenshin can not write a "DLL" in 64Bit so also not wait for it..
Delphi can not and has no 64Bit Compilier you understand ?

For all other
Bass make money with the AddOns
BassNet make money with the AddOns
All or many poeple make money with AddOns without permission from the Author
this is unfair i think and many Author has no longer interesst work for AddOn among the prerequisites

Emil

kenshin1101

  • Posts: 545
Re: BassVideo
« Reply #861 on: 26 Oct '09 - 06:39 »
Hello :)
I've read what Latch said. I have work in delphi, and C++. Still i can code application in C++.
When I write BassVideo, just because i like it, not because money.
Buf after some time all of my friends told me to stop this project
because it bring me nothing but trouble, time, and money too :)
But i won't. I can tell i will not drop this project.
When i code bassvideo, i'm not a student, but don't have work. I love Bass, and then i write it add-on.
This time i work for a company, i got a small money per month but enough for me to continue live.
I'm sorry for delay this project for long time, but i can't do anything else!
How can i live with nothing ? Like i sad before, i can't promise when will release the next version.

Latch said i have bad english skill, that's true, but i can read english and
understand them, just hard to speek and write them correct.

All people here can write the Video add-on for bass not just me. And i will be happy to see
someone can success do that and better than me does :)

@MB_SOFT, RevG, BassFan,Chris,IAN,... and many other : thanks you all for everything, i'll not stop this project.
I can promise that, this time i have to work. But I'll be back :)


chris2009

  • Guest
Re: BassVideo
« Reply #862 on: 26 Oct '09 - 08:21 »
 Hi kenshin. One question:
Why you don't work with Sharky to build a powerfull video library? Both have skills and knowledge to make it.

Cheers, Chris.

kenshin1101

  • Posts: 545
Re: BassVideo
« Reply #863 on: 26 Oct '09 - 08:56 »
Hello, i write in C++ now, not delphi  :-X

Ionut Cristea

  • Posts: 1545
Re: BassVideo
« Reply #864 on: 26 Oct '09 - 10:14 »
Quote
Hello, i write in C++ now, not delphi 


I'm writing bass_dshow in C++ too;
 ;D

radio42

  • Posts: 4576
Re: BassVideo
« Reply #865 on: 26 Oct '09 - 14:34 »
I agree with BassFan, RevG, MB_Soft, Kenshin and the others!
Some of the info given by Latch or OdUser is simply incorrect and doesn't show much respect - but that seems to be normal, as Latch already stepped on a lot of feets.

But one thing would be nice in the end:
To have just one add-on which handles video support.

So may be this is a solution, if Kenshin and Sharky might bundle their know-how and develop a single add-on together.

fmcoder

  • Posts: 436
Re: BassVideo
« Reply #866 on: 28 Oct '09 - 12:01 »
This is really not fair to Kenshin. He has worked very hard on this software library.
He's got real businesses relying on his word and he keeps breaking his word! 
If you were a real business, you would have a resources to write you own library to play video. It's not too hard. It takes about a week to write video playback plugin from scratch. We did it, and now we don't need to wait for someone we don't pay to finish his work. I don't think Keshin owes you (or anyone here who just waut) anything.

I think it takes much time because Kenshin tries to do some useless (in my opinion) work: like re-implementing DShow classes, or not using standard Delphi library functions (and making own), just to make the resulting DLL file smaller. That consumes time and doesn't give anything in return. I think no one now really cares about DLL size this time. It doesn't matter if file is 50Kb or it's 1Mb...

Latch

  • Posts: 90
Re: BassVideo
« Reply #867 on: 28 Oct '09 - 18:59 »
This is really not fair to Kenshin. He has worked very hard on this software library.
He's got real businesses relying on his word and he keeps breaking his word! 
If you were a real business, you would have a resources to write you own library to play video. It's not too hard. It takes about a week to write video playback plugin from scratch. We did it, and now we don't need to wait for someone we don't pay to finish his work. I don't think Keshin owes you (or anyone here who just waut) anything.

I think it takes much time because Kenshin tries to do some useless (in my opinion) work: like re-implementing DShow classes, or not using standard Delphi library functions (and making own), just to make the resulting DLL file smaller. That consumes time and doesn't give anything in return. I think no one now really cares about DLL size this time. It doesn't matter if file is 50Kb or it's 1Mb...

Would you like to sell me a license to use yours?

alter

  • Posts: 10
Re: BassVideo
« Reply #868 on: 28 Oct '09 - 19:01 »
Well if we consider such range then it may matter. 10 dlls 50 kb each = 500 kb. 10 dlls 1 mb each = 10 mb total. Plus exe and so on. However in general I agree that size is not that important as time.

radio42

  • Posts: 4576
Re: BassVideo
« Reply #869 on: 28 Oct '09 - 19:42 »
I guess size really doesn't matter ;-)
Latch is using .Net which typically has a native footprint of 100MB anyhow...

RevG

  • Posts: 454
Re: BassVideo
« Reply #870 on: 28 Oct '09 - 21:18 »
If you were a real business, you would have a resources to write you own library to play video. It's not too hard. It takes about a week to write video playback plugin from scratch. We did it, and now we don't need to wait for someone we don't pay to finish his work. I don't think Keshin owes you (or anyone here who just waut) anything.

I think it takes much time because Kenshin tries to do some useless (in my opinion) work: like re-implementing DShow classes, or not using standard Delphi library functions (and making own), just to make the resulting DLL file smaller. That consumes time and doesn't give anything in return. I think no one now really cares about DLL size this time. It doesn't matter if file is 50Kb or it's 1Mb...

If all you want to do is playback video, sure you could write this plugin in two weeks maybe even less. In fact if this is as simple as you need then you could probably get away with not even integrating with BASS and just use DirectShow for videos and BASS for audio.

However, if you need the video plugin to be capable of dual screen video mixing (with multiple crossfades (alpha, horizontal wipe, vertical wipe), live camera input, picture in picture, all with independent control for each video stream as well as have it fully integrated with BASS including pitch/tempo change and precise frame by frame video seeking then it takes much much longer and most programmers are not capable of developing such a complex plugin. Which again, is the reason why there are only a handful of DJ apps available that can mix video *properly*.


SoundMike

  • Posts: 331
Re: BassVideo
« Reply #871 on: 29 Oct '09 - 07:30 »
However, if you need the video plugin to be capable of dual screen video mixing (with multiple crossfades (alpha, horizontal wipe, vertical wipe), live camera input, picture in picture, all with independent control for each video stream as well as have it fully integrated with BASS including pitch/tempo change and precise frame by frame video seeking then it takes much much longer and most programmers are not capable of developing such a complex plugin.

That I would LOVE :D, but realistically I would settle for a stable video plugin that would enable me to play video files full screen to a second monitor (eg video projector), with alpha crossfades and fade-to-black, and preferably audio played using BASS, synced to the video. I'm not skilled in the right areas to write this myself, and so far I haven't found anything that I can use, even if I leave out the BASS integration.

Mike

kenshin1101

  • Posts: 545
Re: BassVideo
« Reply #872 on: 29 Oct '09 - 07:48 »
Pitch/Tempo is hard
Normally DirectShow have it own way to work, but we use a Decode Stream and feed audio to that
When Audio move forward, then video move to, and then the SYNC between them is very hard
there no example about that (i can't find any). The only way i success is make it work like current
BassVideo status. But i think there are another way, but consume more CPU, that's not the way i'll do

fmcoder

  • Posts: 436
Re: BassVideo
« Reply #873 on: 29 Oct '09 - 17:18 »
Would you like to sell me a license to use yours?
It's hardly possible. It is made as a part of our program, and it'll take time to make a separate product from it... So I think the answer is "No". Sorry.

@RevG:
Of course it doesn't contain any advanced fuctions yet (becuase it's for our software, and such features aresimply not needed), only playing video, output sound to bass (+decode channels support), and A/V sync (it really takes some time to make it work :))
Video mixing is a complex feature, I agree, but it's not impossible.
« Last Edit: 29 Oct '09 - 17:23 by fmcoder »

Latch

  • Posts: 90
Re: BassVideo
« Reply #874 on: 30 Oct '09 - 01:12 »
I guess size really doesn't matter ;-)
Latch is using .Net which typically has a native footprint of 100MB anyhow...

You're gonna scare people from .Net, and you're the guy who makes the Bass.Net library, aren't you?  Windows Vista comes with the .Net 2.0 framework, and I'm assuming Windows 7 comes with at least version 3.5 preloaded.  Only XP or older users will need to download the .Net framework and that's only one time, and odds are good that they've already got installed for another app on their machine.  Even if you install one of my apps on an XP machine that doesn't have the .Net framework, the installer (the plain one that comes with Visual Studio) will download the framework from Microsoft's site, not mine.  In other words, my apps footprints range anywhere from 1 to 9 MB, and the 9MB app is a large package simply because it includes 10 MP3 files for sound effects and a host of other third party controls.

VB6 had a big "native footprint" too, and even C++ apps need the base class libraries.  These days, most of this stuff is preloaded with windows.  What developers need to know is "how big is the setup file that people will download from my site going to be?" so lets talk in those terms because that's what really matters.

Size does matter, but in this case, I'd take anything right now that could play videos and integrate the audio into Bass.  Oh yeah, and come in an x64 flavor too.  Am I asking too much?